--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long <sharelong60@...> wrote:
Share1: Marnia Robinson writes: "Take, for example, the ancient Tibetan Buddhist myth, The Great Stupa. It confirms that passion is indeed the reason for mankind's fallen state, and says there are three paths to liberation: ~the overcoming of passion through renunciation ~the neutralization of passion by pouring all one's energy into selfless service ~the conquering of passion through controlled indulgence. That is, using sex itself in such a way as to transcend passion's treacherous downward suction. It says that the third path is the fastest and most powerful path, although also the easiest one to fall from...until one masters it. Robin1: I think this just BS, Share. There is no spiritual path that entails sex or abstinence from sex: celibacy. "Controlled indulgence"--any being with the intelligence to know how susceptible we all are to the power of this reality inside our bodies, knows this is just plain ridiculous. 'Mastering' "controlled indulgence"--this is the most absurd and ludicrous idea I think I may have heard when it comes to traditional idea of spirituality, Share. Beautifully sincere, but hopelessly naive. Look: here is where I come out on all this. I believe that only the grace of the Personal God can make of celibacy something real, creative, strong, holy. Without that grace, all you have is will power and some religious idea of how good and necessary it is to be abstain from sexual activity. The sexual drive in human beings, Share--unless it has simply just attenuated because of age, or just doesn't assert itself for some unknown reason--always conquers the individual person. One can only do one's best to act with integrity in this matter. But turning sex into some kind of path of truth, that is just a hoot. Don't you see, Share, for this to be true would mean that encountering the methodology and teaching of Marnia Robinson *would be to encounter something more powerful, or potentially more powerful, than sexual desire*. That can't happen. The reality and power of sexuality is something *no human being in my lifetime* has ever mastered--mastered here means, having more control over and intelligence about than what the sensation of sexuality presents to us. *We cannot truly command this aspect of ourselves as human beings without the grace given to us by the author of sexuality* (before the Fall). I have never seen a single human being, Share, who I intuitively knew: *This person knows more about his or her sexuality, what it is, how it acts within him or her, how it can be put it inside a context such as to make it submit itself to that person's will--than the power of this reality to determine that person's experience*. Marnia Robinson: The myth, which is very old, predicted there would come a time when the unstable energies produced by increased indulgence in passion would create chaos at both seen and unseen levels across the globe. The first two paths, celibacy and compassionate service to others, would no longer open the door to enlightenment, though they would remain useful spiritual disciplines. Why? Because general unrest would render impossible the necessary degree of inner stillness. Robin1: Nice talk, Share--but sex will defeat the person every time. It's one of those either or things: either there is the grace to transcend this desire and be protected from its furious vehemence and insistence, or there is not the grace to do this. For me, I have never seen that grace sufficient to insure the physical integrity of a human being. Although I don't therefore, discount the tremendous intention to conquer or control this aspect of ourselves. Obviously a Catholic priest is living with this intention (presumably). But Marnia Robinson, she has as much insight into her sexuality as Eve did: None. *It just is a given that concupiscence takes our measure, Share*--although, again, I say: there are obviously persons in the world heroically fighting against this reality within themselves. It is just that the grace (from the author of sexuality) is being withheld.--This was decidedly not the case before I was born; before World War II. Then those nuns and religious, they, some of them anyway--like Saint Therese of Lisieux, like Saint Francis of Assisi, like Saint Teresa of Avila, like Saint Ignatius of Loyola, like Thomas Aquinas (to take examples of persons who refer to this very topic (their own sexuality) and how they somehow were recipients of the supernatural grace which is a sine qua non in being innocently and intelligently celibate)--*lived the life that none of us can now*. Marnia Robinson: Instead, only the third path, balance with a partner, would serve. Apparently a loving relationship, devoted entirely to the goal of transcendence, can create enduring inner peace and stability. In this way, we can reconnect the broken circuit of gender and permanently rise about our built-in sense of lack. By contrast, celibacy still allows gender polarity to create severe longings in many of us, if only for simple loving touch. And I suspect this trait is less a product of moral weakness than a result of the easily inflamed body chemistry that we have bred into ourselves for millennia. These bothersome longings may also mask intense yearnings for reunion with our Source. The silver lining? Many of us are apparently now primed for shared enlightenment should we care to use our urges for a higher end." Robin1: Marnia is an earnest and intelligent and dreamy lady. Sex is sex. I don't think it can be sublimated--in the act itself--into something which yields spiritual integrity. I am not saying that sexuality is not something that is beautiful, even extraordinary to experience; but its very power to take hold of us is so overwhelming, that the idea of taming, controlling, making it serve some purpose we devise for it, this just sets up for utter defeat, Share. Sex--these days at least--is something each person works out for himself or herself. But no one ever has the experience of knowing what sexuality is in relationship to their own sense of who they are such as to acquire any kind of objectivity, perspective, insight into it. I certainly have never seen a human being whom I could say to myself: There is someone who has a sense of their sexuality identity which is more intelligent than their sexuality has power over them--or could, in any moment, have power over them. Share: from Marnia Robinson's Peace Between the Sheets, pg 137-8 Robin1: Once "Between the Sheets", Share, there can be no peace--not such, anyway, so as to make sex something that can lead one to 'God'. Maharishi himself is the paradigmatic example of a man, so brilliant, so powerful, so masterful—seeming undoubtedly with the integrity to take it or leave it--and yet, even though he knew it would cause unspeakable and untellable agony in so many of those who loved him and devoted their lives to him, he surrendered himself to the desires intrinsic to his manhood. Sexuality will always be more potent than the square root of 1% effect. Share1:Balinese medicine man Ketut from Eat Pray Love: To lose balance sometimes for love is part of living a balanced life. Robin1:I suppose there is a psychological truth in this--as even Dr Spock or Sigmund would attest--but that there is some *metaphysical* truth in this, I reject this, Share. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8csr68LjUM&feature=relmfu >
