Worth riffing off of, because Curtis just nails it...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<curtisdeltablues@...> wrote:
>
> It [Robin's M.O.] is an attempt to appear as if you are
> more familiar with a person's mental processes than is
> reasonable to claim.
This is really the crux of the matter, not only with
regard to Robin, but with Judy and others on this forum
who run the same number. THERE IS NO RATIONAL BASIS
for their claim to "know" the things they declare as
if they were Cosmic Truths. Their entire presentation
is based on "What I say is true because I said it."
IMO this is a carryover -- for both of them -- of how
*they* regarded Maharishi. They believed what he said,
FOR NO OTHER REASON than because he said it. Now they
want others to react to *them* the same way.
> It is unfriendly, not only in content, but in the
> confidence with which you deliver it.
>
> You have used these exact lines to people here quite
> often. I believe it is part of the tool kit that may
> have preceded your taking on students. I suspect that
> you had this kind of attack fairly well honed in high
> school or certainly by college. Just a guess.
An educated guess, however, one supported by psychologists'
description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. To have
established itself strongly enough to *become* a
personality disorder, this behavior was probably well
ingrained before the age of 20. As you go on to explain
so well, all that we have seen in the years since is mere
"polishing" of aberrant personality traits developed
much earlier in life.
> But with the flammable combination of youth (theirs)
> conditioning to authority (Maharishi), charisma and an
> unusual sense of self importance (yours) and the context
> you created in your group with the social rules you
> constructed through giving and withholding approval,
> this became an all-purpose life hack, that gave you
> access through a person's insecurity, to them handing
> you the right to interpret their internal processes.
> How they think about themselves.
BINGO.
I would suggest that this superb paragraph describes
Judy's disorder just as clearly as it does Robin's.
Their whole *motivation* -- if you just follow the
trends in their behavior and the fantasies they spout
about how strongly they have affected the people they
run this routine on -- is IMO *TO AFFECT THEIR
VICTIMS BY GIVING OR WITHHOLDING APPROVAL*.
I personally believe that this is a reflection of
the desire that made *them* what they are. THEY were
the ones who constantly desired approval growing up,
and for whatever reasons ( probably something related
to being unlikable egomaniacal assholes :-), they
were denied the approval they sought. So they
developed the "defense mechanism" of being...wait
for it...offensive. In every sense of that term.
> And like all techniques, it is pretty effective with a
> preselected type of person in a residence setting, but
> when flung out on a board like this, is too telegraphed
> to have the same effect.
Not to mention the fact that both Robin and Judy are
trying to run this number on a forum *dedicated to*
thinking for oneself and deciding things for oneself,
and *not* considering what a person (be it a poster here
or a spiritual teacher) says as true, just because they
said it.
> I am not accusing you of trying to start a cult on FFL,
> because the conditions for that ship sailed long ago.
> It is more like I am seeing someone insert a lock pick
> into every door they come across because they used to
> be a burglar, and now it is just a habit.
BINGO, again.
Robin's just running the same numbers he's run all his
life, that's all. What's frustrating him so much IMO
is that his lifelong "life hack" ISN'T WORKING.
People on this forum DON'T believe what he says just
because he says it. You can feel his frustration at
this, and his confusion at not being able to understand
or comprehend it. It's *always* worked for him, and
now it isn't. He is having major problems with this
(for him) new phenomenon.
> I am not sure if you even know why you do this odd thing,
> you will have to tell me if you choose.
I don't think he has any choice. I similarly don't think
that Judy has any option but to run the same offensive
routines that have worked in the past to get her the
attention she desired. The habits are so ingrained in
both of them that THIS BEHAVIOR IS ALL THEY'VE
GOT. Their "behavior repertoire" is so limited that they
just keep playing the same song over and over and
over and over...
> I can tell you that you are getting some feedback from
> those you have used it on that its application is not
> experienced on the receiving end as pleasant or friendly...
Much less sane.
> ...and once someone has made this move, trust is out of
> the question. Or maybe I am only speaking for myself here.
I don't think you are, Curtis. We have seen this very
sentiment expressed by many people here. Having been
burned by Robin's compulsive game-playing in the past,
at this point they wouldn't trust anything he says on
a bet. He has proved himself unworthy of being
*granted* trust.
> Interesting stuff. I was very curious to know how you
> operated when you arrived here and spent a lot of time
> on the project.
I was not that interested, having spent enough time in
my life with individuals suffering from NPD to recognize
its traits *immediately* in Robin, from Day One of his
participation here. It couldn't have been more obvious
if he had arrived wearing a lapel badge that said:
ROBIN CARLSEN
Narcissistic Cultist
> I feel as if in this interaction with LG, seen from outside
> with such vivid familiarity, but without the emotional effect
> of having it done to me, I am understanding you better.
I can understand this, because I *never* trusted Robin
enough to "get into it" with him and interact with him
in the "confrontation" style he kept trying to lure me
into. I had seen it before, after all -- in spiritual
teachers I'd worked with, and in Judy and other aberrant
personality disordered types I'd run into on the Internet.
So for me it was *always* a process of stepping back and
watching him do his thing to other people.
What people who do this don't seem to understand, and
have trouble coping with, is their potential victims'
ABILITY TO DO THIS. They are so *used* to people
reacting to their act defensively and feeling *hurt* by what
the abusers say that they get confused when dealing with
someone who DOESN'T CARE ENOUGH ABOUT THEM
TO BE HURT BY ANYTHING THEY SAY.
This just doesn't "compute" for the NPD individual.
Their egos are so large, and their view of their own
self importance is so overwhelming that they really
can't *imagine* one of their potential victims not
caring what they say about them.
> What I don't know, and only you do, is if this is a
> tragic thing where you really can't stop yourself from
> fucking with people this way, and then are surprised
> by the responses you are getting when you do, or
> whether this is conscious for you.
I honestly don't believe that *either* Robin or Judy
are conscious of the things they do and the tactics
they use on a habitual basis. To be able to do so
would involve being able to perceive long-term trends
in their own behavior, and I don't think either of
them have the ability to do this.
They just get so caught up in the habitual running of
the act that they *forget* that they ran it last week,
and the week before that, and the week before that,
and...well, you get the picture. For them it's always
new, an "in the moment" opportunity to strike at what
they perceive as their latest victim's vulnerability
and MAKE THEM FEEL BAD. That desire -- to wound,
and hurt, and establish themselves as dominant -- is so
powerful a compulsion for them IMO that I don't believe
either of them ever has a chance of changing it.
If my lay diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder
is correct, that's an even more persuasive argument for
them never being able to change. NPD individuals almost
*never* are able to be cured of the disorder. Shrinks
don't even bother to try most of the time these days,
because the key to eliminating the disorder is the very
thing NPD patients can never do -- admit that they are
disordered.
The one question that neither Robin nor Judy have never
really dealt with is IMO very revealing of the nature
of their disorders. That is, *WHY* should anyone
ever give a shit what they they think or say
about them?
Judy calls people STOOOOOOOOOOOPID as if that's
supposed to hurt the people she hurls the epithet at or
make them feel bad. She cannot comprehend it *NOT*
having that effect. Robin does the same thing when he
posts his sometimes 10,000-word diatribes against
someone who isn't paying enough attention to him. It's
like he cannot *conceive* of anyone *NOT* being stung
or hurt by what he says, and *NOT* feeling compelled
to react.
But, as we've seen on this forum, over time people get
used to the repetitive patterns, and stop reacting.
That's when the chronic abusers get crazy, as they've
been getting lately.
Here's my "bottom line" on the whole Robin/Judy thang:
THERE IS NO REASON TO FEEL *ANYTHING*
WHEN THESE ABUSERS LAY INTO YOU. THEY'RE
SIMPLY NOT IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO LET
ANYTHING THEY BELIEVE OR SAY ABOUT
YOU AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY.
And this is the very thing that drives a narcissist
the craziest -- someone depriving them of their "right"
to be the center of attention. That's my theory, anyway... :-)
