Edg, Thank you for that. A lot to contemplate. And again, part
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray27" wrote: > > > > > > Hey Edg, > > > > Nice post. I especially liked part > > > > That is something I've never thought of. Now, at the risk of sounding > > stupid, is this sort of the encapsulated version of "Advaita". I've > > never really understood it before, or had the motivation to try to > > figure it out. But you've come up with such a concise description, > that > > I can get my head around it. > > > > Glad if it is a help. As I posted at length the other day, I think one > has to grow clarity -- that is, by having the insights you seem to have > had due to the reading of my words, your brain has made some neuronal > connections that will become the basis of yet more iterative clarity in > the future. A luscious cycle that! > > I have read, say, a couple dozen books on Advaita, and really "did a > number" on my brains with just such a "nerve garden tended" program of > spirituality. Again and again, I would read words that were something > I'd run through consciousness previously, yet often a nuance of > deeper-still understanding was noted. I actually would say I have "felt > growth happen." Perhaps a mere conceit on my part, but it pleases me to > say it. The scientist in me has a technique for approaching the books: > I am honest with myself if some text is not instantly clear to me. If > not, I read that sucker again and again to see where my fuzziness is. > > Knowledge in the books stays in the books -- a truth for most, but I > would say ANY spiritual book, if attended mindfully will yield the > growth of which I'm speaking, because each thought one has is thereby > EMBODIED -- our nervous system having created a specific architecture as > a "bookmark" of that "segment of the flow of experiencing." A > memory's physicality. Get enough of these going, and when one again > reads the books, the silence starts to come to the fore. > > Now-a-days, when I read Ramana's "Talks," there am I reading the > questions of the "people at the mike in the lecture hall," but now, I > first try to answer the question as if I were enlightened, and then I > see how closely I get to Ramana's response. I'm happy to report but > little variance now after years of writing and reading about Advaita. > To me, this is such a relief to have my intellect, um, smug? To me, so > much is now clearly avoidable as "identificational tarbaby -- do not > touch!" > > And FFL has been instrumental in helping me see my growth as more and > more the sniping of Richard et alia has less chance of triggering my > egoic defenses and all the excitation that that implies. As I get okay > with my own nothingness, I can forgive it in others, eh????? Nay, LOVE > IT in others. > > To me, clarity's value is to take one to the doorstep leading out of > reality -- beyond and through which is actuality. That is, I can now > stop-in-my-tracks, and peer into that utterness without the intellect > needing to name it for me. And as far as the heart goes, it says "yes" > to that vast unknown too. Silence just keeps getting louder and > louder......meaning that noise on this side of the doorstep is getting > suspiciously muted. Sort of like getting a birthday card and not > needing to read the words on it or ask if the giver of the card loves > one -- it's all understood instantly as "good" without the fine print > ever being examined. Just so, I don't need to have a reason to love > the silence of nothingness. > > When I -- or almost anyone -- look into a mirror, I'm not triggered into > a frenzy of thinking or loving, right?.......but there is certainty that > all I see therein is me, wholly me, solely me, soully me, and only me. > Just so, the silence beyond that doorstep doesn't stimulate and instead, > challenges one to realize one is Alice on the wrong side of that mirror! > > When, I note silence, it's like seeing a cornucopia with fruits spilling > out and rolling towards me, but I see that my doorway is shaped only > such that the apples can get through the door. That's my personality -- > it's Edg-shaped -- my nervous system is shaped like "something" and only > that "part of silence" can fit into "my glove." And I'm okay with that > tiny little bit of the vastness in its localized presentation. Think > of the vast landscape canvases of Asian artists with but a tiny > wandering monk in the corner. > > Death takes the glove off, but I'm not hankering for another. That's > the value of silence. It is so obviously real, that "love of the glove" > becomes merely an offer of a tawdry miring in delusional incarceration. > > Edg > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > > > > > Mjackson740, > > > > > > I think any "intent" is devolving, but if one is going to insist on > > being "one," (an individuality) then bhakti is probably a safe way to > > spend your "identity dollar." Ramana Maharshi says that the mantra > must > > be accompanied by the devotional substrate-dynamic, so I'm going to go > > with that opinion, but note that Ramana rejects all techniques as > > secondary compared to direct realization of the Self. > > > > > > To ask "Who am I?" instantly dissolves the ego to insignificance > when > > it simply cannot be found! This method tricks the mind by giving it a > > ghost to seek when it wants to invest in an identification. And with > > identification "in hand," so to speak, without an object of > > consciousness to assign as "hey, that there is 'me,'" there's a chance > > then that identity itself -- as a process of the mind -- ceases, and > > that's a very good thing if you ask me. > > > > > > Now, if one uses the heart to get to that doorway instead, I cannot > > gripe. The heart finds the divine and swoons into to it leaving the > > soul, like Japanese sandals on the doorstep, behind. > > > > > > Thorn to remove a thorn -- be an individual but only so that there's > > "someone to love God," yes, that works, and then, if successful, one > can > > remain a devotee in an ocean of unity, or one can go all the way to > full > > Godship -- that is, beyond God-the-manifest. > > > > > > Note that the monsters of evil, when they attacked Krishna, were > > instantly enlightened -- that is, Krishna stomped them into such a > mush > > that identification could no longer find purchase, and they were, as > if, > > returned to the unmanifest -- free of all evil attachments. > > > > > > A hard path, the dark side is. -- Yoda > > > > > > As for becoming heartless due to TM not having a devotional dynamic, > > hmmmm, not so much. Maybe, but not sure, cuz I "work the heart" in > daily > > life, so maybe most folks get enough exercise that way to balance TM's > > lack of it.....???? > > > > > > Edg > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the > > process of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last > months > > - I have tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as > > effective why do so many people quit? Why do so many people who do TM > > long term act like asses or become completely ineffective in life? Not > > everyone, but a lot do. > > > > > > > > I appreciate your posting these words. > > > > > > > > I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know > what > > you think of this part: > > > > > > > > > > > > "One other important point is that the mechanical repetition > > > > of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual > progress > > > > whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in > many > > > > discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition > > of some > > > > meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's > > life, and no > > > > unfoldment of true spiritual values. > > > > Haven't you ever > > > > wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so > heartless, > > especially > > > > the administrators the early courses? It was because their > > mechanical > > > > repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, > > not opening > > > > it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a > > sort of > > > > disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have > the > > same > > > > feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly > > evolved, it is > > > > because they are disconnected from their hearts." > > > > > > > > What do you think about this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin > Folks > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? > > > > > > > > Of course I'm an asshole -- everyone is. > > > > > > > > And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of > > TM, 44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a > > "nothing technique" that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the > > movement's leaders? If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, > > then these leaders are leaders of a movement that is offering a > > technique that doesn't work -- so they're frauds -- or, as I have > said: > > ASSHOLES! > > > > > > > > Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise > > persuaded? > > > > > > > > These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of > > others, dismissive, and on and on. Not always, but often. Not to me > > personally, so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW. > > > > > > > > One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people > > doing something -- like a Nazi SS. Which reminds me of this time I > > personally walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM > > minor-leader, and he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me > to > > give him the check and leave his office. Fuck, eh? The $500 was > chicken > > feed to him. > > > > > > > > I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions > > in net worth each. All of them strutted around like feudal > lords....not > > even nice to their wives. > > > > > > > > It's the money -- it corrupts......corrupts everyone. Even a > person > > making $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the > > streets.....like that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself > > real. BAH! > > > > > > > > And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and > > privilege to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et > > alia. > > > > > > > > This was two decades ago -- who knows, I have gotten "better" as a > > human in that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by > > karma to sand down a lot of their rough spots. Humility can come in an > > instant, so who knows what they've evolved into by now. The acid test > is > > what they do with their money and how they treat their minions. > > > > > > > > And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are > > as if funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's > > impoverished masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, > gifts, > > and investment in gonzo business deals. And the movement is knocking > on > > their door for more cash EVERY. DAY. Shit, even I get asked for > > donations by the TMO at least ten times a year. Simply trying to avoid > > all that rush for their gold turns the rich into fear-everyone types, > > and it shows when you try to approach the rich with anything but "hey, > > try the bean casserole." They smell your beggary from 100 feet away. > So, > > on that level, I pity them, because they are always hiding out from > the > > masses, and having to have only people like them to hob nob with. > > Vicious cycle that. > > > > > > > > Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam. The technique probably can > be > > used to good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other > > techniques is just not clear. I'm all for anything that lessens > > physiological excitation, but I could rattle of a hundred ways to > obtain > > that. > > > > > > > > I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever > > honored? Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right? > > Ask L.B., right? The movement has never NEVER NEVER wanted us to have > > intellectual clarity -- tried to keep us all as blind true believers > and > > avoid any discussion of the fine points or the truths about the > mantras, > > Guru Dev's money/death, and on and on -- we all know the ways the > > movement didn't respect us or grant us any right to know about most of > > the movement's machinations. > > > > > > > > Here's one symbolic moment for me: on teacher training, Maharishi > > had a meeting that was sort of "thrown together quickly in a very > small > > venue" and it turned out that people could sit right next to > Maharishi, > > maybe only a 100 people in the room. This rich guy planks his ass down > > right next to Maharishi, and picks up Maharishi's hand and holds it! > -- > > instead of listening he interrupted Maharishi several times to add his > > opinion to the words of Maharishi. > > > > > > > > Maharishi didn't even twitch, and none of his body guards did > either > > -- they knew the master was working the guy up to get a big gift to > the > > movement, ya see? Up until the time, the only person I knew who'd ever > > touched Maharishi was Tat Walla Baba. > > > > > > > > If I had planked my ass down before that rich guy, I would have > been > > sent home FOR FUCKING EVER for not knowing my place. > > > > > > > > And, yes, after that instance, I gave two more decades to the > > movement -- which means I was not only an asshole, but a mindful toady > > asshole. > > > > > > > > And that's the cause of all this bitterness you see in my writings > > -- I did this to me. 100% on me, but if anyone here wants to defend > the > > TMO as guilt-free because "everyone has their integrity and has to own > > their own karma, so we get to maraud others with fake science, lies, > > lies and more lies," then I'm probably going to piss all over those > > opinions just as you, Dear Fucked-up Richard, have once again tried to > > piss on my opinions. > > > > > > > > My hope for you, Richard, is that you realize some day that you > > think of yourself as "rich" in knowledge and intellect and clarity, > and > > you are treating the rest of us at FFL as if we are far beneath your > > acumen -- that is "we are poor." In this regard, you're as messed up > as > > the snobby Rajas. > > > > > > > > Good luck to you, Bub. > > > > > > > > Edg > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Duveyoung: > > > > > > I know two of the Rajas -- worked for one for two years, > > > > > > knew the other via pot-lucks. Both millionaires AT BIRTH > > > > > > -- both assholes....mean assholes....haughty, rude > > > > > > motherfucking assholes. > > > > > > > > > > > You're an asshole for posting this. What was it, the the > > > > > money? LoL! > > > > > > > > > > > Did I make myself clear? I don't know about the others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
