--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote:
I taught several hundred. Most all, with maybe the exception of one completed all seven steps. Most came back from the 10 day check, and many for subsequent checking. It would surprise me if more than 10% who originally started have continued with the practice. But most reported positive results after learning. The practice does require 20 minutes twice a day which can become a chore, especially if the benefits become incremental after a time. But generally there was something that motivated people to begin the practice, and perhaps they got what they wanted after a brief time. The monetary investment was not great. And as Susan says, those who had a particular issue they wanted to address were generally more motivated to stay with it. This plays into TM as a treatment for PTSD. Perhaps if you seperate out the technique from the personalities running it, you might have a more objective view about it. And I hope that you are devoting as much time to getting your own solutions implemented as you are to bashing the TM solution. > > I have heard a number of people who have taught TM for many years speak about the numbers of their initiates who didn't even finish the 3 days checking - how about it, all you TM teachers who post here? What would you say are the numbers you taught and how many of them lasted even a year? I would really like to know if that number is over the 10% a couple of former teachers have mentioned here. > > Almost everyone I taught came for all 3 days of checking. I taught well over 1500 people. Don't know how many stuck with it - I think it depended on why they had started, how busy they were, and if it felt good to meditate. People we had health issues like high bp, anxiety, insomnia, were always more serious about giving TM a good long try. > > > > The point being if TM is as fine as fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, how come so many people don't do it very long, or quit after a few years? > > > > But being that the TM for PTSD is ongoing, let's see the results. If PTSD treatment professionals embrace it across the board, I am willing to reverse my statements here on FFL - but I can tell you from having rubbed elbows with some of these veterans, if they knew the jack asses who were in charge of the TMO wore gold hats and claimed to be kings, they would throw those TM teachers out on their ears. > > Michael, many of the same concerns that you have expressed come up when thinking about TM in schools - only you worry that parents will scream and object once they get wind of the crowns and murky finances of the organization, all of which are now so readily found on the internet. I wonder if you have read Transcendence by Norman Rosenthal, MD, the psychiatrist working with PTSD vets near Washington DC? I have not read it, and I have no idea if Rosenthal is still enamored of TM, but it might be interesting for you to get his point of view. Seems I heard he was really enthusiastic about how TM helped the vets. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: seventhray27 > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:13 AM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD > > > > > > à> > Hey Michael, > > I just wrote a rather lengthy reply to this, but it got eaten. > > I reread your (lengthy) response about why you feel that TM should notàbe used for the treatment of PTSD.àAnd your realize that much of it has nothing to do with the actual treatment, but rather the fact that you doànot like the TMO, it's leaders or its claims. > > And you offeràonly pure speculation on why it would not be an appropiate treatment.à> > And finally, you seem to be saying that since I don't agree with what you wrote that I am in denial in some way. > > You invent this notion that I don't respect your opinion because you aren't specifically credentialled in this way. > > > > You laid out your reasons.àThey appear well thought out.àI am sorry if I remain unconvinced.àI wish you the best in putting forth you agenda for dealing with this issue. > > My position remains the same.àLet the results speak for themselves.àThat appears to be the last thing you want to consider. > > à> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > I wrote it because you asked me why I didn't like the idea of TM for PTSD folks and I told you - evidently you aren't willing to pay attention to anything I say unless I have an MD in PTSD treatment behind my name. > > > > > > The TMO is reason enough to stay away from TM, especially for these at risk people. It is time (but I know it ain't gonna happen) that people stop saying that TM is good, we just have to ignore or excuse the TMO and its people's behavior and energy. > > > > > > I am not willing to see veteran's with PTSD used as experimental subjects - IF, IF , IF TM had lived up to its hype, lived up to the claims made for it and its ancillary programs made through its questionable "scientific" research, I would be more than willing to see TM taught on the battlefield itself, but given the fact that TM research across the board from the early stuff to the laughable Maharishi Effect stuff, it isn't likely that TM will show itself to be efficacious for treatment of PTSD. > > > > > > How many years will people stop saying "Oh, well, nothing's been proven yet, but let's just give it another 60 years, I know Marshy will be proven right one day." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: seventhray27 > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:53 PM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Hey Michael, > > > Thanks forÃâàyour very thorough reply.ÃâàI commend you for your effortsÃâàto come up with treatments for the PTSD, and I hope that you succeed in getting your ideas implemented.ÃâàIn my opinion, that is where I would focus my attention.ÃâàI can't say thatÃâàyou come across as any kind of authority of what the efficacy of TM would be in this situation, but I would assume that whatever benefits or detriments that would result from the practice of TM for PTSD would be become apparant andÃâàbased on that, the programÃâàwould be continued,or expanded or curtailed or discontinued.Ãâà> > > Why not the results, or non resultsÃâàspeak for themselves? > > > Ãâà> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Bottom line, TM simply is not the best meditation for these > > > > folks with PTSD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
