Michael, I am not sure if you saw the second part of my post. Did you read the book Transcendence by Norman Rosenthal, MD who is working with vets and TM?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Susan thank you for your feedback on the numbers you taught, I really am > interested in knowing - Bob Roth and the TMO like to imply that 6 million > have learned and are still meditating, and others have said maybe 10% of > those who were taught continued - I guess the actual figure is somewhere in > between. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Susan > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:48 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD > > >  > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Like I said, the research the TMO has touted for decades is iffy at best, > > especially research on anything after TM, meaning the sidhis on down to the > > present moment, given the lack of proof that TM and TM related programs > > have a desirable effect, it is unlikely that TM will have a greater > > beneficial effect than other meditations or other modalities for PTSD > > veterans. > > > > Since I am unfortunately not in a position to stop TM being introduced into > > the population, the "experiment" is going ahead whether I like it or not. > > But in the end who do you think will be claiming TM is the very best thing > > for PTSD? The TMO, and its front organizations and people like David Lynch > > and former military men who WORK FOR THE TMO. > > > > Some of my objections do stem from objection to the TMO - It is not in my > > ability to discern why people think it is a good thing to teach a technique > > that has the effect of creating people who behave like leaders of the TMO - > > do you not see the link, the connection? If it did what TMO says it would > > do, Bevan, Tony, Neil etc etc etc would all be saints who would actually be > > leading society instead of CLAIMING to lead society. > > > > I have heard a number of people who have taught TM for many years speak > > about the numbers of their initiates who didn't even finish the 3 days > > checking - how about it, all you TM teachers who post here? What would you > > say are the numbers you taught and how many of them lasted even a year? I > > would really like to know if that number is over the 10% a couple of former > > teachers have mentioned here. > > Almost everyone I taught came for all 3 days of checking. I taught well over > 1500 people. Don't know how many stuck with it - I think it depended on why > they had started, how busy they were, and if it felt good to meditate. > People we had health issues like high bp, anxiety, insomnia, were always more > serious about giving TM a good long try. > > > > The point being if TM is as fine as fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, how > > come so many people don't do it very long, or quit after a few years? > > > > But being that the TM for PTSD is ongoing, let's see the results. If PTSD > > treatment professionals embrace it across the board, I am willing to > > reverse my statements here on FFL - but I can tell you from having rubbed > > elbows with some of these veterans, if they knew the jack asses who were in > > charge of the TMO wore gold hats and claimed to be kings, they would throw > > those TM teachers out on their ears. > > Michael, many of the same concerns that you have expressed come up when > thinking about TM in schools - only you worry that parents will scream and > object once they get wind of the crowns and murky finances of the > organization, all of which are now so readily found on the internet. I > wonder if you have read Transcendence by Norman Rosenthal, MD, the > psychiatrist working with PTSD vets near Washington DC? I have not read it, > and I have no idea if Rosenthal is still enamored of TM, but it might be > interesting for you to get his point of view. Seems I heard he was really > enthusiastic about how TM helped the vets. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: seventhray27 > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:13 AM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD > > > > > > à> > Hey Michael, > > I just wrote a rather lengthy reply to this, but it got eaten. > > I reread your (lengthy) response about why you feel that TM should notà> > be used for the treatment of PTSD.àAnd your realize that much of it has > > nothing to do with the actual treatment, but rather the fact that you doà> > not like the TMO, it's leaders or its claims. > > And you offeràonly pure speculation on why it would not be an appropiate > > treatment.à> > And finally, you seem to be saying that since I don't agree with what you > > wrote that I am in denial in some way. > > You invent this notion that I don't respect your opinion because you aren't > > specifically credentialled in this way. > > > > You laid out your reasons.àThey appear well thought out.àI am sorry > > if I remain unconvinced.àI wish you the best in putting forth you > > agenda for dealing with this issue. > > My position remains the same.àLet the results speak for themselves.à> > That appears to be the last thing you want to consider. > > à> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > I wrote it because you asked me why I didn't like the idea of TM for PTSD > > > folks and I told you - evidently you aren't willing to pay attention to > > > anything I say unless I have an MD in PTSD treatment behind my name. > > > > > > The TMO is reason enough to stay away from TM, especially for these at > > > risk people. It is time (but I know it ain't gonna happen) that people > > > stop saying that TM is good, we just have to ignore or excuse the TMO and > > > its people's behavior and energy. > > > > > > I am not willing to see veteran's with PTSD used as experimental subjects > > > - IF, IF , IF TM had lived up to its hype, lived up to the claims made > > > for it and its ancillary programs made through its questionable > > > "scientific" research, I would be more than willing to see TM taught on > > > the battlefield itself, but given the fact that TM research across the > > > board from the early stuff to the laughable Maharishi Effect stuff, it > > > isn't likely that TM will show itself to be efficacious for treatment of > > > PTSD. > > > > > > How many years will people stop saying "Oh, well, nothing's been proven > > > yet, but let's just give it another 60 years, I know Marshy will be > > > proven right one day." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: seventhray27 > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:53 PM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Hey Michael, > > > Thanks forÃâàyour very thorough reply.ÃâàI commend you for > > > your effortsÃâàto come up with treatments for the PTSD, and I hope > > > that you succeed in getting your ideas implemented.ÃâàIn my > > > opinion, that is where I would focus my attention.ÃâàI can't say > > > thatÃâàyou come across as any kind of authority of what the > > > efficacy of TM would be in this situation, but I would assume that > > > whatever benefits or detriments that would result from the practice of TM > > > for PTSD would be become apparant andÃâàbased on that, the > > > programÃâàwould be continued,or expanded or curtailed or > > > discontinued.Ãâà> > > Why not the results, or non resultsÃâàspeak for themselves? > > > Ãâà> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Bottom line, TM simply is not the best meditation for these > > > > folks with PTSD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
