[FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC

[Ann]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long <sharelong60@...> wrote:
>
> Ann:  there are two kinds of people when it comes to Robin; those that 'get' 
> him and those that simply will never get past a combination of 
> puzzlement and reaction to him.  Share to Ann:  I usually question such a 
> polarizing idea.  I don't think such polarities serve the well being of 
> anyone, especially the one about whom they are spoken.  They imply an us and 
> them, just for starters.  And as the words puzzlement and reaction  carry 
> somewhat negative connotations, then it is implied that those who aren't in 
> this category, that is, those who "get" him are the ones in the positive 
> realm in this context.   

No, no. I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying here. I put absolutely 
no value judgement either on Robin or on those who either 'get' him or don't 
'get' him. But just for one moment, think even about what has happened here at 
FFL. There don't seem to be too many people who hold a middle ground with 
regard to him. You have those who revile him and those who like and support him 
pretty strongly. That has, on one level, nothing to do with him. It has to do 
people and how they perceive and react; it is their own subjectivity that 
determines how they end of feeling, irrespective of Robin.

In no way am I saying because I feel I 'get' Robin more than I don't 'get' him 
that I am better, smarter, superior or different than those who find him 
pedantic, long-winded, boring, insane or deluded. I am not attempting to create 
sides or polarities here. I am merely stating what I have noticed in the over 
30 years I have known/known of him. It is an observation, not a judgement call.
> 
> Along with this is the idea that Robin is unique.  But since we all are, 
> maybe what you're saying is that he is especially unique, more unique than 
> the rest of us, or unique in a better way?  But again, I wonder if such 
> labels, especially if they go unchallenged, I wonder if they really serve the 
> well being of anyone, including the one to whom they are applied.

I think Robin is not more or less unique than anyone else. We are all 
individuals. I can find him irksome, infuriating, interesting, strange and many 
other things just as I can feel this with other people but perhaps for other 
reasons. Share is Share, Ann is Ann and Robin is Robin. Some like you or me or 
him more or less than other people like you or me or him. That doesn't make us 
anything; we remain who we are and how others see us will vary from individual 
to individual. And that neither makes any of us better or more unique than the 
other. So again, I make no value judgement on 'quality' of uniqueness with 
regard to Robin (or you or me).
> 
> As for willingness to take life's ride, I'm content to let my unfolding track 
> record here speak for me.

I made no value judgement on your ability to let life take you for a ride. Some 
of us go more willingly than others, that was what I was saying. My reference 
to heels in the dirt was an image of being dragged backwards unwillingly 
creating heel marks in the ground. God knows I have dug my heels in enough in 
my lifetime - there are drag marks all over this planet from where I've been.

Thanks for your thoughts. This has been worthwhile for me.
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: Ann <awoelflebater@...>
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:01 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC
>  
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote:
> >
> > Ann, I admit I chuckled when you say below that my description sounds 
> > contradictory and then you say that Robin is very certain within his 
> > uncertainty.  I conclude that we both understand paradox.
> 
> Perhaps a sort of paradox but also a sort of duality where he remains 
> constantly open to new input (so in a way he is illustrating a kind of 
> uncertainness) and is merely certain that he has to be this way -open to the 
> feedback of life. It is a state of constant movement as I see it although the 
> perceiver himself can remain still but keeps the gate open for constant 
> feedback from the outside (and inside). That feedback back and forth from 
> perceiver to environment, environment to perceiver is the flow, the movement.
> > 
> > A while ago Robin told Curtis that he wants a reconciliation with me and I 
> > also want a reconciliation between us.  But neither of us appreciates 
> > how the other person apologizes so I'm not sure how that would work!
> > 
> > Nonetheless I
> >  remain available for and open to reconciliation and THAT is the action I 
> > do beyond wishing Robin happiness and well being.  I stay engaged with 
> > him whereas he was the one who disengaged from our last exchange.  Fine, 
> > his right to do so, etc., and perhaps that is his way of reconciling.  I 
> > think we're both doing our best.  Though Robin did say something 
> > recently about wanting more development so probably he disagrees with 
> > this.  I asked him about it but he disengaged without replying. 
> > 
> > Anyway, it just might be as I was saying to Robin towards the end of our 
> > interactions last year:  that we're simply two people too different from 
> > one another to have a viable friendship.
> 
> I think that you have hit upon something that is true here, or could be. In 
> my experience there are two kinds of people when it comes to Robin; those 
> that 'get' him and those that simply will never get past a combination of 
> puzzlement and reaction to him. It is as if he lives on this slightly 
> different frequency where if you venture there you are either discombobulated 
> and can't exit fast enough or you look around and sort of wonder at it all 
> while at the same time appreciating the slight strangeness of it. It can 
> cause you to have to move a little further into areas you are not used to 
> exploring. That doesn't mean I always agree or even understand what it means 
> to 'get to' where Robin functions from but it is unique.
> 
>   Perhaps we've come to this understanding each on our own and a 
> reconciliation of sorts already exists!
> 
> That's a good way to look at it. Perhaps the reconciliation isn't happening 
> BETWEEN the two of you but within, individually, each one of you so it is 
> finished on some level - at least on that other subject. And there simply may 
> not be the opportunity or means for this to happen in the future anyway so 
> you are going to have to accept that as it is now, is how it has to be until 
> if and when you can communicate again and that communication may never touch 
> upon this particular subject - directly - again.
> 
> > 
> > This reply is very different from the reply I wrote 2 days ago.  But it 
> > is an expression of my
> >  thoughts and feelings now.  Just as last year my various so called 
> > discrepancies were expressions of my thoughts and feelings as I rode out a 
> > very challenging experience and came to different insights about it.  So 
> > much so that even recently when Robin was attributing thoughts and feelings 
> > to me that I wasn't having, it didn't bother me.  So in this sense, 
> > there has been change I think, and positive change at that.  But I could 
> > be wrong and am confident that if I am, life will straighten me out one way 
> > or the other (-:
> 
> Life can help "straighten" things out but you also have to be willing to go 
> along for the ride or it just becomes heel marks in the dirt!
> 
> > 
> > BTW, an access number for that beautiful Jan 2012 poem from merudanda about 
> > Robin coming to FFL to heal is 302666.  
> 
> Thanks, I re read most of that post and it seems a long time ago; that was 
> right after I stumbled onto FFL.
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Ann <awoelflebater@>
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 8:32 PM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Sat 20-Apr-13 00:15:02 UTC
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ann, I was of course joking about totally restored as I was never 
> > > unrestored, grin.  And I'm glad we're having this 
> > > exchange.  
> > > 
> > > It sounds like you're saying that in his psychological rape comment to 
> > > Curtis about you, Robin was being both ironic and straight 
> > > forward.  Perhaps it's easier to deal with such a communication 
> > > style when one has known the person, well, in person.  And when 
> > > one is not emotionally upset and overwhelmed. 
> > 
> > Perhaps.
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Having read it probably many years prior, my initial use of the phrase 
> > > psychological rape was spontaneous, said in a moment of upset and yet 
> > > felt spot on.  This was later validated for me by Lord Knows and 
> > > the Howells who have also attested to the long lasting harm of such 
> > > encounters even though they are not physical rapesuch as you describe 
> > > below.
> > 
> > Ah, but only you know what your situation/perception was, not LK or the 
> > Howells. And only they know what their experience was back in the 80's and 
> > you don't. So, to be able to compare doesn't seem possible. That doesn't 
> > mean LK and the Howells didn't THINK it was the same based on your posts 
> > with Robin. But ultimately Share, you need to figure it out on your own. 
> > You may have thought the interaction was a big deal, but the aftermath 
> > became much bigger. And perhaps this is the element that you need to 
> > concentrate on
> > > 
> > > Yes, it's true that Robin apologized.  As did I, in the very next 
> > > sentence of my original upsetting post.  And I said I was willing 
> > > to work things out.  But he rejected both the apology and the 
> > > offer.
> > 
> > Two things here. First, I do not remember all of the details of this 
> > interaction, all of the phases of it. I am not particularly inspired to 
> > look it all up. Your memory may or may not be faulty and perhaps you have 
> > already re-read the posts pertaining to all of this and if not I suggest 
> > you do. Second, I believe that any rejection you believe Robin made toward 
> > your apology and whatever offer you made may not have been as cut and dried 
> > as you think. I would venture to say he was not rejecting YOU, he was 
> > perhaps rejecting the FORM your apology was taking. Maybe he felt it was 
> > somehow short circuited or lacked the necessary movement within yourself to 
> > have made it truly meaningful. I am not going to second guess him and, as I 
> > said, I have not gone back to re-read any of this since I first saw it when 
> > it happened back in September.
> > 
> >   And he continued to deliver apologies that were obscured by both 
> > over analyzing and blaming me.  Plus he wasn't willing to work it 
> > out offline.  Anyway, I think we both made errors in the handling 
> > of a very emotional situation.
> > 
> > Again, I am not the person to verify any of this. Judy would do a much 
> > better job. My best advice, if you are still bothered by it all, is to go 
> > back and re-look at all of the interactions related to this and see if they 
> > still ping against your consciousness that is consistent with the way you 
> > remember it all now.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yes, I agree that people attribute thoughts and feelings to others a lot 
> > > here.  I think it feels invasive with Robin because of several 
> > > factors:  he often does the attributing subtly and indirectly; he 
> > > does it a lot; and last but not least, he does it with such unquestioned 
> > > certainty.
> > 
> > Your description sounds a bit contradictory. I think you are trying your 
> > best to describe it but I find it hard to reconcile how something can be 
> > subtle and indirect yet come across with "unquestioned certainty". I would 
> > say in what I know of Robin there is only one thing he is certain of and 
> > that is: he has to keep finding himself willing to discover himself wrong 
> > (or right) in each and every moment. He probes, he tests, he puts things 
> > out there to see if they resonate with truth. He may be one of the least 
> > 'certain' people I know. Yet he is very certain within his uncertainty and 
> > he will go to his death attempting to live his life pursuing what is most 
> > real, even as it changes from moment to moment. Most of us would blanch at 
> > the prospect of attempting this.
> > 
> >   Plus he often sounds like he feels justified or even called to do 
> > it.  The only other poster who sounds similar is Judy.  
> > 
> > I don't see any similarities between those two people except both attempt 
> > to find truth in their own, individual ways. If someone feels "called" or 
> > "justified" to find what is real, genuine, sincere I think this is not a 
> > bad "calling". You seem to feel Robin's 'methods' are not justified. That 
> > is your right as long as you make sure, as we all must with anyone we 
> > interact with on a less superficial level,  is that your own ego or 
> > subjectivity is not obliterating your ability to see where you might 
> > actually figure out something about yourself or life as a result of opening 
> > yourself to elements of the unknown.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yes, I agree that both the Sept 6 upset and the psychological rape upset 
> > > have been blown out of proportion.  But the blowers were many!
> > 
> > You could have taken it in hand. But hindsight is/can be 20/20 vision. Does 
> > this all still bother you? If so you can run with it and take a chance. 
> > There is always time, as long as we are still breathing, to evolve a 
> > situation into something new, something different. Things don't just have 
> > to end.
> > > 
> > > I'm sorry for the loss of your sister and in such a horrible way. 
> > >  It must have been devastating for your whole family, especially your Mom.
> > 
> > Yes, devastating. Shocking. It tapped into the deepest wells of misery I 
> > had ever known up to that point. She was so beautiful, creative, alive.
> > > 
> > > I'm pretty sure I've accepted my own part in all this.  And that 
> > > I'm sensible enough to attend appropriately to what, as you say, others 
> > > might currently be up to.  Otherwise there might be another 
> > > psychological rape!  Now of course I can see it coming and move 
> > > out of harm's way.
> > 
> > Is it about moving out of the way? Or is it about figuring out how to view 
> > any new situation and deal with it differently so that misunderstandings 
> > and fabrications don't multiply? And you are still saying it was 
> > 'psychological rape" so has anything actually changed? 
> > > 
> > > I very much regret a creepy cult leader comment I made to Robin.  
> > > I was very upset by his insensitive response to something especially 
> > > nasty RD had written.
> > > 
> > > In the beginning Robin appeared so invulnerable.  But I've come 
> > > to realize that he is just like the rest of us in being subject to the 
> > > conditions inside his own skull.  I really really wish he did not 
> > > have to suffer for 26 years to deconstruct his hallucinatory 
> > > Unity. 
> > 
> > Why regret his suffering? It was probably necessary - it happened after 
> > all. He may have not wanted it any other way, or, maybe he is the kind of 
> > man who has a conscience, a developed sense of right and wrong. A person 
> > who can take responsibility for the pain he helped inflict on others at 
> > various times and therefore is capable of suffering over it. Others in his 
> > position may have not felt a thing, when all was said and done. Now THAT 
> > would be something to worry about. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > There is, in the archives, I believe in January 2011, a sweet poem from 
> > > merudanda expressing the idea that Robin came to FFL for healing. 
> > >  So I wasn't the first person here to wish that for him.  And I 
> > > will continue to wish it.
> > 
> > Wishing for someone's health, happiness and healing is a positive thing 
> > especially if one's actions are consistent with helping to bring that about 
> > for another. Wishing alone is without price and probably without merit. 
> > Wishing is easy and saying it is easier still. Best of all is DOING 
> > something about it, even if it is only to serve yourself (and I mean that 
> > in the most positive sense.)
> >
>