Well, let's see now. Xeno's just got done making a fool of himself, which means
Barry's likely to do so as well.
> The brain seems to have a model of the body stored somewhere, somehow.
> Meditators sometimes experience this as seeing the body with eyes closed
> during meditation, which is interesting because the image of the body never
> includes the head, only the way the body looks like from the head during
> waking. It would seem the information for this internal image comes from the
> visual system, which has that perspective on how the body looks. Out of body
> experiences have been produced using laboratory methods, so it certainly
> seems possible that a woo factor need not be involved.
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070823141057.htm
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110711081249.htm
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130922205931.htm
> As a general rule, I try to avoid discussing experiences with those who have
> never had them. It's pretty clear that the people trying to sound
> authoritative about OOB experiences haven't ever budged from their bodies
> and never will. :-)
Yup, there he goes, right off the bat. The only person "trying to sound
authoritative about OOB experiences" (besides Barry) is Xeno.
> But the "internal body model" sounds pretty good to me. The mind tends to try
> to replicate, even in its fantasies and/or travels outside the body (I am
> open to either possibility, without attachment to either one), tends to be
> "looking out of" a very human pair of eyes, within a very human body.
> A spiritual path is just a special sort of illusion, and people who hold to
> such views do tend to be threatened when those illusions are questioned, or
> seem to be undermined by science which has been eroding spiritual and
> religious beliefs for centuries.
> I completely agree, which is why I wrote my The Woo Factor post recently.
> *Nothing* pisses off a person who has bought into an illusion for many years
> more than someone pointing out that it's probably an illusion.
However, it's a big mistake to assume (as Barry obviously does) that because
someone finds an attempt to explain away some bit of woo annoying, it's because
they are attached to that bit of woo, rather than because the attempt to
explain it away is incompetent. I'm on record, for instance, as being extremely
skeptical of astrology, but I find most attempts to debunk it egregiously
ignorant and worthy of extreme scorn.
> As for authfriend's beliefs in this regard, as least for the point of
> argument she sometimes seems to hold some esoteric ideas, but unless she
> specifically states just what she believes in this regard, I am not sure at
> all what she believes.
> I believe that this is intentional on her part. She likes to say things
> without really ever saying anything about what *she* believes. That's so
> that she can lash out later when someone attributes to her a belief she
> hinted at mightily, but was too wussy to commit to.
This, of course, is a flat-out lie, and anybody who has been reading my posts
over time knows it.
But remember what Barry said above:
"The mind tends to try to replicate, even in its fantasies and/or travels
outside the body (I am open to either possibility, without attachment to either
one)..."
Speaking of being "too wussy to commit to" a belief in woo. (guffaw)
> Her highly argumentative stance here might just be a product of her
> personality tendencies, and have less to do with what she thinks is true.
> After all, if you post something here, it is a near certainly that she will
> find something wrong with it. > True that. After all, I'm one of the only
> one of her "declared enemies" left. ("One of the only one of"??) The way
> she seesthings, she's GOT to challenge everything I say.
Both Barry and Xeno have completely lost the plot here. What Xeno referred to
as my "highly argumentative stance" was, of course, nothing of the kind, and it
didn't have a thing to do with Barry; it was a comment on a post of Salyavin's,
not a challenge to Barry.
> Especially if a few other people on the forum have been guilty of the
> Cardinal Sin of having pleasant
> conversations with me. :-)
>
> What's most fascinating is that she really seems to believe that no one has
> noticed this.
What's actually most fascinating is that Barry really seems to believe his
fantasies are true.
