you shot your erudite arguments all to hell by saying there were no grandiose
claims - that's all TM is, is grandiose claims - spin don't have shit to do
with it. marshy was a liar, a con artist, a Hindu fanatic and very
superstitious. If you wanna argue superstition, try telling Turq that he didn't
see M flee a room just because chairs were upended.
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 4/3/14, steve.sun...@yahoo.com <steve.sun...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 9:10 PM
Michael, with
all due respect, you are not an expert on Hinduism, or even
superstitious Hinduism for that matter. I think we saw that
last week. So you have an opinion on the relationship
of Soma and the Vedic Gods, but it is just your
interpretation, unless you claim to be able to decipher the
clear meaning of the Vedic verses.
You
probably don't know what chemicals a refined nervous
system may create, and if they have any effect on ones
environment, or the elements of nature, if there is such a
thing.
So,
you may choose to spin Maharishi's comments in anyway
you choose, but the case you are making seems rather weak to
me.
The
introductory lecture for TM discusses benefits in four
areas, if I'm not mistaken. There is a reference
to the tradition that it comes from. But I don't
think, in fact I know, there are no grandiose claims being
made.
I
think sometimes your points are on target, but oftentimes
not.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...>
wrote :
Its the ninth
mandala actually, but it was never phrased so that I
remember - also it is significant that M who always claimed
publicly to offer a technique that is non-religious to
covertly tell everyone inthe room point blank that the
purpose of meditation is to refine the body so it produces
soma so Indra and the other gods can have lunch on your
nickle and they will give you rewards as a result. This is
not just Hinduism but superstitious Hinduism. If what he was
teaching in this tape was legit, he would never had had the
tapes recalled. As I believe the Turq said not long ago, if
TM was a great as they claim it is, they wouldn't have
to lie to sell it.
I am also eager to hear from any other teachers who post
here who have seen the tape and what they thought of it at
the time and what they think of it now, or remember when the
word came down to give 'em back to the Movement. I think
its a very interesting bit of Movement history.
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 4/3/14, steve.sundur@...
<steve.sundur@...>
wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 11:41 AM
Am I missing
something, because isn't that what the 10th mandala is
about in just about every verse. So even though
it's been some 20 plus years since I listened to it,
that's my recollection.
Evidently that is something the Vedas concern
themselves with. Do you consider this revelation?
I guess you do.
Are
you are trying to paint it as some strange ritual where
people splay themselves out and cry, "Indra, eat me,
eat me!"
If
so, I must have missed that. (-:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
<mjackson74@...>
wrote :
I just found it
interesting - as I said I think, somehow this particular
document had escaped my attention. I was told during the
sidhi prep courses that we produce soma in the stomach and
only if we have soma being produced can we have experiences
of "higher" states of consciousness. That's
what the governors who taught the courses told us and those
would be Greg Palma, Walter Gibbons and Paul Potter (for
those here who love to have sources quoted). But nothing
was
ever said about the gods eating it and giving us blessings
as a result.
I had no idea such a tape existed and I wanted to hear from
the TM teachers here to see if they had seen the tape and
what they thought of it at the time they saw it. That's
all.
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 4/3/14, steve.sundur@...
<steve.sundur@...>
wrote:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 3:49 AM
You know
Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas,
about the Vedic Gods. But I don't. There are some
who think it is all a bunch of jibberish. I think
Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not
misrepresenting him.
But I
do generally have respect for ancient traditions. And
I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and
a
deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus show
this as well.
What
you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being
produced in the gut, and God's feasting on it,
doesn't really strike me as that strange. I think
it's probably standard stuff in some schools of
Hinduism. But do you really think they needed this to
try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM? I mean the
Puja could probably make that case. And that is
hardly
hidden.
And I
guess you could parse whether the Mantras have meaning or
meaningless, but for whatever reason, and in some way, the
technique has worked for many people, and still works for
people who are just now learning it.
And I
believe at some point early in the movement it was
discussed
whether to bring it out as a religious practice, or a
scientific one. Obviously the scientific approach won
out. But of course the Hindu, or religious overtones
are there. On the other hand, so what.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
<mjackson74@...>
wrote :
Somehow in my
looking at TM, I have always missed this - any of you guys
ever see this tape? If so what did you think of it?
"Soma and the Gods"
On the next Web page begins the transcription of "Soma
and the Gods" taken from testimony in the Kropinski
trial. This videotape is one of a handful that have become
infamous in the TM movement because of their secrecy: It is
only shown to TM teachers on the heavily regimented Teacher
Training Course (TTC). For many years copies of this tape
were not even allowed to enter the continental US.
For good reason! Much like the Church of Scientology's
OT materials, "Soma and the Gods" lays out the
Maharishi's freakish theology in a way that the public
is not deemed "ready" for by the Maharishi and
the
movement.
According to participants in the Kropinski trial, this tape
-- along with the entire TTC catalog -- appeared
mysteriously on someone's doorstep one day. Since then
the tape has been used by plaintiffs in court cases to
prove
that the TM movement had a religious, specifically Hindu,
agenda -- largely because it's one of the few times the
Maharishi was captured on tape talking about worshipping
the
Vedic Gods. (Of course today, the TM movement sells Hindu
sacrifices, yagyas or yajnas, to Ganesh, Lakshmi, and other
Gods for thousands of dollars without batting an eye!)
But the true significance of "Soma and the Gods"
is much larger. And the theology that the Maharishi
espouses
is not Hinduism. It is much more idiosyncratic -- and
frankly bizarre.
In a nutshell, the Maharishi describes a sort of parasitic
relationship between TMers and the Vedic Gods. TMers
produce
the magical chemical Soma in their gut -- but it isn't
something they can use directly. The Vedic Gods,
principally
Indra, descend from Heaven and feed on the Soma in the
TMers' belly. In return for this primitive
relationship,
the Gods grant all manner of boons. TMers become
successful,
happy, prosperous, and develop supernormal abilities.
Unbeknownst to non-TM teachers, the entire TM program can
be
understood through this simple model.
We practice yogic asanas and pranayama to clear the
channels
through which Soma will flow. We repeat the name of our own
personal "Ishta" (God) to summon Him or Her.
Advanced TMers practice the sidhis to "stir" the
Soma and further clear channels. We read verses from the
Ninth Mandala that literally invite the Gods by name to
feast on the Soma in our belly: "Flow, Soma, in a most
sweet and exhilirating stream, effused for Indra to
drink.... Be the lavish giver of wealth, most bounteous,
the
destroyer of enemies, bestow on us the riches of the
affluent." And we take Ayurvedic potions and pills
believing we will produce "extra" or "more
refined" soma.
An anecdote from a former Maharishi International
University
(MIU/MUM) professor:
When I was on MIU faculty, there was a special videotape
that only faculty were privy to. It was the Ninth Mandala,
chanted in the original Sanskrit. Sitting with eyes closed,
listening to it was considered a great privilege and was
highly secret.
On my Governor Training Course, after we had rounded and
rounded and rounded for three months, MMY [the Maharishi]
finally called to answer our questions. I asked what we
should expect from endlessly reading the Ninth Mandala of
the Rig Veda and I never forgot his reply: "It will
become a living reality."
To my knowledge, this fairly frightening vision is the
Maharishi's alone.
The Rig and Sama Vedas themselves describe the process of
making a beverage, soma, by grinding and brewing a certain
medicinal plant -- or alternatively by feeding a plant to a
cow and then imbibing either its milk or urine. James
Allegro speculated some years back that soma was actually
the hallucinogenic mushroom amanita muscara, a prevalent
inebriator among all Aryan cultures. Perhaps. But even in
modern day India, there are hotris who perform the Soma
sacrifice using the humble soma plant, and imbibing the
juice.
Nowhere in all of Vedic literature have we found a single
reference to soma as a substance produced in the human
stomach and fed upon by Gods. Except this product of the
Maharishi's imagination.
Many sources from the inner circles of the TM movement have
already reported on the Maharishi's preoccupation with
the influence of other people's thoughts (stress),
purity of food (genetic engineering), and apparent
preoccupation with "enemies" (re: the CIA and
AMA). The unforgettable image of ravening Gods jostling
each
other to feed at the stomachs of TMers around the world to
get their share of the mythical Soma seems a conclusive
indication that TM theology may simply be the by-product
delusion of the Maharishi's seriously distrubed
mind.
