On 07/09/2015 08:33 AM, curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :
Yes, as some are affirming here the Yahoo-groups guidelines are a lot
about civility and how things are said. Yes it is about civility and
facilitating communal well-being for individuals in [safe]
collaborative communal organization. With this it seems a lot of
thought has been put in to the Yahoo-groups guidelines by folks at Yahoo.
Me: If I didn't know who wrote it, I would have to assume this was a
parody. You are taking the approach that is appropriate for the
pre-schools I teach in or an exclusive POV group like TM.
Two things stick out for me:
One is the assumption that the unenforced Yahoo guidelines are some
kind of Vedic scripture and were not banged out by 20 something's from
the corporate lawyer's guidelines. You are taking them as some kind of
profound message for how to both condescendingly coddle and at the
same time control other adults engaged in free conversations.
/*Heh, that's what I said in a post before I read this one. People sit
around in corporate boardrooms and dream this stuff up because the
lawyers and marketing demand it. There was probably a tug-a-war between
the more rational and idealistic in that meeting and probably a more
senior manager reminding them they were to create "suggestions" not
"rules." Those here who have sat in corporate boardrooms know what I
mean. :)*/
Two is that you are following a long historical line of people who
value form over content and seem incapable of tolerating the way
people who care about content engage in the process. When I am in a
heated debate and someone calls me a name, it is very easy to label it
for what it is, a sophistic tactic to distract from the weakness of
the argument or their lack of ability to mount one. Often the back and
forth of diverse opinions can inspire someone to mouth off a little.
But that is because they are engaged, they care, they give a s-- oh
wait, I just got a memo from the inhibitory part of my brain that
alerts me that in your mind, you might bounce me if I use bad language....
You don't want passionate people who are emotionally behind their
ideas and willing to hash it out in discussion. If I put some new age
music behind what you wrote I could use it to go to sleep. You are
taking the Kim Kardashian approach to the exchange of ideas. All Spanx
and nothing behind the eyes.
Buck:The yahoo guidelines seem very much like a re-structuring and
looking at language that is happening a lot of places and also ongoing
within the TM movement itself to help folks figure out civil
processes. Like between and within the different elements as in the
case of TM, of what or who is TM. I was in movement working committee
meetings yesterday on campus where a focus of discussion was looking
for actionable remedy to some really poor behavior and culture in
language-ing that can hold 'stealth-mores' and 'micro-inequities' that
some may not realize they are sharing as they speak. The process comes
to these same themes of facilitating and moving civil discourse.
Me: A lot of chilling PC euphemisms here. It reminds me of why Jerry
Seinfeld (see meditator reference so it must be good kids) said he
doesn't perform on college campuses anymore.
This line made my veins run with ice water:
Buck:
"looking for actionable remedy to some really poor behavior and
culture in language-ing that can hold 'stealth-mores' and
'micro-inequities' that some may not realize they are sharing as they
speak."
Me: This is on the campus with a committee discussing actionable
remedy for free speech if they detect "micro-inequalities" in what you
have said. Am I really the lone voice in the wilderness who believes
that this is the language of oppression? Is this what we lived through
the 60's for? I am fundamentally opposed to every idea that is
expressed by this POV.
Buck: Interestingly, the millennial meditating generation that is
present participating in this is not sitting still at all for old
patriarchal ways and they are quite studied in their push and their
holding some elder feet to the fire. This is not just about a hurtful
violence endemically perpetrated like exampled here
Me: Again with the conflation of violence and speech. This is critical
to the sophistic goal of combining our natural civilized aversion to
violence and pair it with someone calling another adult a name in a
heated discussion. It is like an advertiser putting up a picture of
their product next to a woman who looks as if she might be able to
effectively nurse her child using a lady part that cannot be
referenced directly because it might reveal the micro-inequality of
sexism and might draw down the fire of an actionable remedy. (such
creepy lawyer speech to hide creepy intentions.)
Buck: by some behavior of some individuals in character as was on FFL
but finding actionable cultural movement in progressive civil
discourse that seems more broadly afoot otherwise.
Me: You know what I hear in this tortured use of language?
Intellectual insecurity. I hear this in education circles a lot.
People afraid to state something simply and directly because they
don't want you to really be able to evaluate the flimsy idea
embellished by sophistic lawyer talk BSery. I can clear up the ideas
easily:
Buck is saying that he is very interested in figuring out ways to
punish people whose speech uses any language that he determines holds
such vague concepts as micro-inequalities to mask his agenda to just
boot people off this group who he doesn't like. By using vague
references to violence he hopes people will support his small minded
approach to interfering with how adults discuss things that matter to
them in a way that they decide for themselves. And it is all wrapped
up in the carob coating of doing it for their own good and the good of
the "community", all presumably babies who cannot be trusted to decide
these things for themselves.
/*Buck needs to realize that a lot of us post things laughing as we do
because we like to shock people to bring them out of their stupor.
Otherwise FFL would have been a knitting party. Turq really liked to do
this and I like to do it to see what people here are really about.
*/
Buck:
The collaboration in practice seems to require some willing studied
[conscious] self-control of self-moderation for participation in the
engagement. Also known as, civility and how things are said.
Me: People who are terrible bakers spend a lot of time talking about
the icing.
/*Good one!
*/
-JaiGuruYou!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
Doug is right here, and I think calling this new group Free Speech is
a misnomer, as Doug implies. It's more a question of civility than
free speech. IIf, say, you go to a party and spend your time there
insulting and ridiculing and misrepresenting others, you will likely
be asked to leave. But would it be fair to call that a curtailment of
your right to free speech? I don't think so. It would just be an
adverse commentary on your boorish social behavior, which you would be
well advised to amend.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :
As someone pointed out down at Paradiso Cafe in Fairfield, Iowa this
morning about the creation of FFL2 for the FFL-banished, these fox may
not have fun for long by themselves without also having hens to pick
on. Making straw-men may suffice for some while and keep them from
tearing at each other for some time. The Yahoo-groups guidelines
eventually will find and rule them where ever they may go as they meet
up with kind people in civil society. A character of violence in civil
society often is that it is self-limiting in nature and the asocial
tend to isolate themselves. Thanks for better facilitating that, Alex.
-JaiGuruYou
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <j_alexander_stanley@...> wrote :
On a whim, I made a FFL free speech zone. Use it. Don't use it.
Doesn't matter to me. Just letting you know it's there.
Yahoo! Groups <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2>
image <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2>
Yahoo! Groups <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2>
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View on groups.yahoo.com <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2>
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Thank God, now maybe we can get some peace around here from all the
whining. I think you might have wanted to call the new sit! e "australia".
