We live in the 21st century. If there are Muslims who want us to change
to Sharia law they can be shown the door. There are many Muslims who
could give a shit about Sharia law and are only Muslim by birth or
circumstance.
On 09/09/2015 03:38 PM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
wrote:
When I speak of cultural differences, I'm not talking about food or
dress. I'm speaking about how we treat or accept others. Example:
Muslims are far less tolerant of the rights women take for granted in
the west. Wife beating is considered the norm over there, honor
killings, blaspheming their religion can cause violent reaction,etc.,
they tend to bring those behaviors and attitudes with them.The taxi
reference was about Drivers refusing riders that had bought alcohol in
gift and duty free shops and taking it home, sober. Taxi drivers here,
I don't know about Canada, are often called to take people home from
bars or parties in order to keep them from driving and causing
accidents. It's a job requirement, for public safety. Many expect our
society to accommodate them on issues of this nature when it wouldn't
be acceptable by our own. Should Muslim businesses be allowed to
refuse service to Gays, Lesbians or transgenders? If so, why not
Christians or Jews?More and more Muslims are demanding that we accept
Sharia law, which would definitely allow this behavior. Ready for
polygamy? Can they accept us for who we are or do they expect us to
accept them and live by their cultural standards. They come here, we
didn't go there.
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*From:* "awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 9, 2015 10:41 AM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Who Would Have Predicted?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote :
I don't think disassociating one's self from fellow countrymen or
culture is important either, when adopting a new country. What
concerns me is, are they(immigrants),willing to accept the customs and
laws of their adoptive country. An example would be in some cultures,
mainly eastern or middle eastern, segregation of the sexes is the
norm. However, it is thought to be sexist in another culture. Some
can accept these differences and others can't or don't want to.
Recently, in the name of religious freedom, we've had issues of people
thinking they can obey the laws that they choose. The one in the news
the most lately, has been the woman in Kentucky that doesn't want to
issue marriage licenses to gay people because she thinks it violates
her religion. Many may agree, to a point, but most think she should
obey the law. She will eventually give in or take a different job.
However, the incidents we don't hear that much about are Muslims that
refuse to sell/ handle pork or alcohol and demand accommodation for
that in their jobs due to *freedom of religion*. Muslim taxi drivers
don't want to accept riders that either carry alcohol (unopened) or
may be leaving a bar intoxicated. The question is, how much of an
immigrant's former culture do we have to accept and at what
inconvenience to our own culture an! d lifestyle. These are the kinds
of conflicts that I'm referring to and they( differing issues) are
much more numerous and how much resentment does it cause on either
part? It's easy working these things out on an individual level but
when entire cultures are involved, mine vs theirs, friction begins to
build. I'm not against immigration, just think it should be done with
caution and selectively. An immigrant to any country should be able to
speak their own language, eat their own food, observe their own
customs in their own homes but when in Rome( public).... And if that
is unacceptable, don't come.
I think some of your thinking is based a little in fear but some is
also practically based. Adopting certain traditions from other,
incoming cultures has been happening constantly. Think of the new
foods we eat now that were virtually unobtainable in North America
just a few decades ago, the ethnic foods i.e. sushi. Music, art,
theater have all benefited from the influx of new ideas, different
life experiences of those coming to live on foreign soil. Fashion,
dress habits - our lives are always being touched by a variety of
influences, especially now with the internet and vast reaches of the
media not to mention the ebb and flow of various ethnicities migrating
around the globe.
As far as taxi drivers, to take one example, I don't think they are
(no matter what their ethnic background) required to take a ride! that
they deem is either a threat or likely to result in problems and this
includes extremely inebriated passengers. I don't think any business
is required by law -airlines, restaurants public transit - to allow a
person deemed too inebriated to be given access to a premises. There
has been a recent kerfuffle here in Canada about allowing RCMP
officers who are Sikh to wear turbans or not, for example. Why not
allow this? So that they can don the silly Mountie hat instead?
Anyway, whether you like it or not your life and my life are being
altered by the constant comings and goings of different individuals
and different cultures every single day. Until the day you are forced,
at knifepoint, to attend a mosque and swear fealty to Allah I don't
think you need to sweat it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]"
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 9, 2015 8:53 AM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Who Would Have Predicted?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote :
Bingo! I've always been interested in learning about other cultures
and enjoying what they have to offer, but there's a saying, "there's
no place like home". The culture/religion a person is born into is an
aspect of their dharma, it is an important part of their evolution. We
feel comfortable, less stress, when we move about our daily lives in
tune with others like us. What does it do to a person's evolution when
he is suddenly put into, or even forced, into a foreign culture that
he's not familiar with? Maharishi always used to say, "when in
Rome..." but what if you're not comfortable doing as the locals do. Do
you insist that they conform to you because you have "your rights"?
Is it their obligation to make you feel "normal"? I know it's a cliche
but oil and water don't mix. I think assimilation is an important
aspect of successful "transplanting" into a knew culture.
I don't know if you have ever lived anywhere except the US, Mike and
if you have if any of those places spoke other languages than English
but I have. I will be the first to tell you that one tends to stick
with others who speak your language and who moved from the same
country you did. I was moved all over the place growing up and while I
didn't live anywhere exotic I was moved to Germany as a nine year old
child. I didn't speak a word of German when I initially arrived there
and although I went to an International school where there were
students from literally all over the world attending we all spoke
English and our curriculum was pretty much North American based in
terms of subjects taught and format observed. While I learned a
decent/working level of the language over the three years we lived
there I still played with my English-speaking friends - three other
families who happened to have been from the US living on our short
street so I can vouch that when you are in a foreign country one has a
tendency to seek out and find the company of those who at least speak
in a tongue you can readily understand. On the other hand, that is not
to say we didn't take in all the rest of the culture including the
food, the local townspeople and all the rest of it. Being raised
Catholic we attended the local Catholic church just at Sikhs might
search out the local Sikh temple in another country and congregate
there. So, while I didn't reject my new home I found myself also
embracing what I had known from my short life (9 years) in the US. To
do so does not indicate a desire not to assimilate necessarily and
while Germany today is very different from the Germany in 196! 6 it
felt quite different to me as a young child then including the fact
the German people hated the Americans and there were still bombed out
buildings in evidence and never ending tall cranes dotting the skyline
in the reconstruction of so much devastation still evident after WWII.
I guess my point is this: Adopting another language or disassociating
yourself from your fellow countrymen in a foreign land is not
necessarily mandatory in one's adoption of that new country's
characteristics and ways. There will always be a combination of
embracing the old and coming to incorporate and assimilate the new.
Because of my being moved around so much in my life I don't really
know who I am or what country I associate with. I do feel white and I
do feel privileged as in a first world resident but beyond that I have
zero ability to feel nationalistic or patriotic.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* feste37 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 8, 2015 8:30 PM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Who Would Have Predicted?
Cultural diversity is overvalued, in my opinion. The common
denominator of the societies that score highest on measures of
happiness are that they are culturally homogeneous. These are often
small countries, like Denmark and Iceland. Multiculturalism just
doesn't work very well.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
There is potential for problems in Europe with a large influx of
Muslim refugees. Muslims are not good at assimilating. Some European
countries (France for example) now have considerable numbers of
second- and third-generation Muslim immigrants who are outside the
mainstream of society and disaffected. They do not fit in. They are
unwilling to adopt the values of liberal, secular Western culture.
They are also prone to violence and become easy recruits for radical
Islamic jihadi groups that wish to destroy the West and impose their
own values on us.
I can't take your word for this. I would have to do some extensive
reading to come to understand what is true and what is false in what
you say. There are always problems with any influx of anybody. There
are problems when too many family members get together for a holiday,
for pete's sake. I feel cultural diversity is healthy and desirable. I
don't want a white bread culture and although I don't welcome violence
from anyone (God knows the US has more than its share between its
current residents already) I can not see how anyone could possibly
predict how the Syrian families and individuals will enhance or
detract from a country before they even have a chance to unpack the
bags they don't possess.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote :
It's a funny old world, really. Germany gets some pretty tough raps
for having a pretty virulent neo-Nazi movement as well as having had a
robust population of real Nazis back in the middle of the last century
but look at the country now. It seems this country is now showing
itself to be, perhaps, the most welcoming and open to the current
refugee crisis from Syria. I love to see it. There is not a country on
the planet that doesn't have enough space or potential to take in
thousands of these displaced hu! man beings. If you look at the birth
rate in any given country, the amount of humans that are added to any
country's population in one single day, you will note that it exceeds
any number that would correspond to incoming refugees. The difference:
strangers vs family or fellow countrymen. I personally think Canada is
a great place for at least a quarter of a million of these fleeing
people. God knows we have the space and we have the resources and
Canadians are pretty decent folk, generally speaking.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/refugee-crisis-germans-welcoming/story?id=33589179
