As Judy said earlier, don't force your religion on me! No, I appreciate your
views but the reason I gave below is non religious. The founding fathers
recognized Life as an Unalienable, fundamental right. Most views on abortion
were formed before there was much common understanding about DNA. The fetus was
described to the public as a *lump* of tissue, devoid of individuality, almost
like a cancer. It was depersonalized to make it easier to *get rid of* even the
term *fetus* has that affect, so as not to leave any emotional scars for the
aborting mother. But science has projected the understanding of the life of the
fetus as a unique human being, complete within it's self with more
understanding of DNA. Maharishi used to speak of holding a great banyan tree in
the palm of your hand. Just pick up a tiny seed. All of it's greatness and
potential lies within. Every person has personal weakness's, that' s why we
have laws.
From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]"
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell'
I take the "eastern" view that until the child takes their first breathe
they are nothing but an growth on the woman. There's really no soul there
because no "shakti" which is the basis of consciousness has not entered the
vessel. The thing about the religious dummies is they want to stop abortion
but are unwilling to adopt kids from mothers who can't take care of them. They
are a bunch of stupid hypocrites. And just wait until one of their daughters
gets raped by a felon to see how fast she gets shuffled off to have an abortion
On 09/19/2015 11:33 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Actually, I believe I was giving a non religious explanation against
abortion. The very founding documents, our nation are built upon, recognizes
our unalienable(can not be denied) rights to *Life* liberty and the pursuit of
happiness. You can't have liberty or happiness without Life. These rights are
attributed to an All Mighty Creator because if such a thing existed, who is
anyone to deny them? The very same person that wrote those words also wrote
about the concept of a separation of Church and state. So, they are separate
issues. The basic human rights recognized by the government are not religion
based.
From: "olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell'
This whole abortion "debate" seems like such a set up. Why proclaim
that due to religious principles, abortion is murder, or that gay marriage is
sin, and then live in the USA? I am not suggesting such believers should
leave, though it seems like an awful lot of heartache to go through, to insist
on a religious truth so strenuously, that to have the opposite practiced by
some, becomes a constant thorn in the believer's side. Who wants to live like
that? It seems like a set up, designed to cause the believers additional pain,
and have them become co-dependent on such ideas, and the organizations that
publicize them. Life is tough enough, imo.
And the issue is NOT that the Christians cannot live by their beliefs. No one
is insisting *they* get abortions or participate in gay marriage. However, they
and the radical pastors that preach to them have determined that both of these
issues are somehow unholy, and their very practice is an abomination against
God. This in no way begins to validate the freedom of each of us to live our
lives as we see fit. Religious barriers, no matter how well intentioned, are
better practiced personally, vs. imposed on anyone else. I also see a lot more
commonality between the fundamentalists of any religion, be they Christians or
Muslims, than any side is willing to admit.
I do agree that there is a natural law in back of all of this, which we are
all personally held to, and responsible for. However, each of us has to make
that judgment of ourselves independently. No one can do this for us, or impose
it on us, no matter how convinced of their truths they may be.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote :
We hold these truths to be self evident... certain unalienable Rights,among
these are LIFE! Unalienable is defined as, *can not be denied*. Without the
most fundamental right of life, no other rights matter. When does life begin?
Theologically, that is open to discussion. Biologically, it begins when
Conjoined DNA begins to divide. It is the very beginning of life, it's
self.That DNA is not the mother's, it's not the father's, it is the unique DNA
of separate human being with all of it's potential from beginning to end. It
has a right that can not be denied. Socially and theologically speaking, that
unalienable right to life is considered sacred as long as it is innocent.
Violate specific laws of society and that sacred value can be forfeited by the
law breaker, it's his conscious decision. But never was it intended to to be
denied on a basis of someone else's circumstances/ convenience. Do we really
want to go down that road? Hitler did, as did many other tyrants and they have
been traditionally labeled as EVIL, even Anti-Christ. I speak in biological
terms of life because we value our society in secular terms and spiritual
values are not considered valid anymore because certain people don't want
other's religions imposed upon them..
From: "emily.mae50@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell'
To me, black and white thinking takes on the cloak of "casual,
indifferent, etc.", or "blasé," if you will. The remark "Oh shit! I missed my
period! I'm really *f"ed* now!" seemed off the cuff and appeared to indicate a
prejudiced and surficial understanding of the issue...."blasé."
Curiously, Mike, do you believe in the soul? Do you believe in the eternal
soul? Do you believe that the soul dies along with a potential life that was
aborted by the mother, a potential life that could not survive independently
at 6 weeks and that even nature aborts naturally at times (called
miscarriages). Do you believe that it could be possible that if there is a
soul, that the soul may "live" to incarnate in a different host/mother? Just
food for thought.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote :
I draw the line with *murder* as one human willfully killing another
innocent human. There's manslaughter, accidents etc.Then there is killing for
food.I can admire one who observes ahimsa as going above and beyond the call
of duty as a penance.
From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]"<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell'
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote :
"My blase attitudes", did I get that right? How can anything be more blase
than to sweep away and destroy an innocent human life because you're not ready
to be responsible for*it* yet? It's freaking murder! A women's right to murder?
The Supreme Court will wake up one day, just as they did when they ruled one
human can not own another or that Slaves were not 3/5ths of a human being,
because "all men are created equal" under the law. That took two hundred years
to get right , but it happened. Science is moving the understanding of life
forward very fast. If the science of DNA can put a person in prison for life
for a crime, it will save a life that is innocent of a crime. It's not her
body that she kills. FYI, all person's involved in the creation of another,
need to be equally responsible for that life. Yes, that presents new social
problems but the first rule is do no harm to innocent life.
I love your passion, Mike. I am of the belief that all lives are created
equal. When I say that I mean ALL lives. Human or animal. Blasphemous?
Perhaps. Maybe. Likely. To kill any thing is a kind of murder. Killing a fetus
is destroying life. Butchering a terrified, bleating cow is destroying a life.
Euthanizing an old and decrepit dog is destroying a life. Is life sacred?
Probably. What is sacred? Anything that is created. Is allowing something to
live sometimes opening the way for suffering? Yes. Is destroying a life
sometimes decreasing the chances of suffering? Yes. Is it better to overdose a
dangerous horse with phenyl barbital so it doesn't kill somebody merciful? Is
aborting an unwanted baby the right thing to do? Is there ever the
justification for causing death of a living being? It all gets so complicated.
Is the death penalty ever warranted? Are unwanted, unloved, abused children
happy to have been given the chance to live despite the fact they may have
been conceived by rape? I can't answer this but what I do know is that human
beings are given hundreds of chances to make choices every moment of every day
and the freedom to make those choices must remain intact.
From: "emily.mae50@... [FairfieldLife]"<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell'
There is another issue I'd like to comment on about ignorant men thinking
they know all about pregnancy and childbirth and raising children on their own
with no support—particularly the ones that think they should judge, condemn,
and legislate women's rights. Yes, Mike, it's the girl "who missed her period"
that's at fault, right? Not the boy or man with the raging hormones who
pressured her and pressured her and pressured her to give in to his desires and
then left the scene.....give me a break.
I'm not saying you shouldn't stand by your religious convictions, but maybe
you ought to dig a little deeper into your "blasé" attitudes.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote :
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are *Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness*- That to secure
these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers
from the consent of the governed. Your right to *privacy* will not stand
against another person's right to Life.... much longer, religion or no
religion. You will need to abolish the first amendment that grants freedom of
political speech and freedom of religion first. Everyone knows that the
overwhelming majority of abortions in this country are simply birth control,
"Oh shit! I missed my period! I'm really *f"ed* now!" It's rarely about health
or life of the mother. Fifty-three million abortions can not account for that.
" "Why would I want my daughter to be *punished* with a child?" Obama's words,
not mine. This is the mind set of *Me first* and to hell with what's right. It
is the purest of evil and it will not stand.
From: "authfriend@... [FairfieldLife]"<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell'
Whether you like it or not, abortion is legal in this country. To jeopardize
the health of poor women because of your religious convictions is untenable.
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