Just curiously, (I have no background in any of this), does the "True Self" equate with the "Soul"? (from which, in certain texts, God within from which "nothing can be taken away or added to?")
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <s3raphita@...> wrote : Re "Chogyam Trungpa commented . . . our common human nature renders us essentially flawed": Chögyam Trungpa was too much a drunk, aggressive lech for my taste. All that “crazy wisdom” master crap cuts no ice with me. I think those who argue we are fallen creatures (western tradition) or essentially ignorant (eastern) are pointing to something true and vitally important. Those who think we can simply remake ourselves as we see fit are precisely those who pave the way for the gulag. Re "BTW, you never deigned to answer: How do you know you are not enlightened?": My True Self - "my" I - is enlightened. But at a lower level my everyday self which takes slight at a perceived insult, fears death, craves more and more experience is not and cannot be enlightened. You have to distinguish between the two levels. As you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear it is wasted effort and futile regret to kick yourself for the failure of your lower self to rise to the level of the True Self. Your True Self is universal not particular, transcendent not immanent, etc. That's why the "common experience of self-judgment and self-hatred that will arise for people when they're doing spiritual practice" was never an issue for me. Such people have simply misunderstood the hierarchy I'm referring to. George Harrison is a case in point. He spent his last years struggling between his (lower self's) desire to play the role of a spiritual type - doing daily meditation, etc. - and his (lower self's) desire for cocaine and sex. The lower self's struggle is fruitless as it will always remain "lower". To try and take sides in that conflict only strengthens each opponent and gets you nowhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <emptybill@...> wrote : Re "in Western culture there’s a common experience of self-judgment and self-hatred that will arise for people when they’re doing spiritual practice—an unworthiness that will arise": That wouldn't be my problem! Sounds like a version of that self-loathing that infects those attracted to various brands of political correctness. Chogyam Trungpa commented upon this after studying Western psychology at Oxford. He pointed out the insidious nature of the underlying metaview of human nature in EuroAmerican culture. He called it the broken vase prototype ... i.e. our common human nature renders us essentially flawed as persons. That means we view ourselves as transgressive by our nature rather than by our enactment of particular acts. Over the years, I have found this divide between these fundamental views reinforced by representatives of our particular cultures and lineages. Read it and sleep or read it and weep. BTW, you never deigned to answer: How do you know you are not enlightened? How could you possibly know?
