The first point as 1. in the text below as to Dr. Nader's initial reluctance to the job feels quite poignant and tells a narrative that seems is there in this.
As a communal leader Dr. Nader has not had nearly the public experience and acquired the acumen for the job that the Drs. Morris and Hagelin and others have earned as lecturers, teachers and administrators of TM. It seems pretty clear Dr. Nader was brought out of the basement and put on stage center. What the text is not showing is an insight in to the working relationship which the three Drs. have with each other at the top as they have come in to the inheritance of the heritage of all that is TM. That part of relationship working out in by-law actually is really interesting to watch play out in process. None of the three can necessarily rule by decree, they have to bring the others along and these are substantial personages. Technically they are only trustees of a corporation. That was well set up by Maharishi well before Maharishi passed away. Each of the three bring things by talent and personality that the others need or they have to work around. That is the TMO now. The other night at the Dome meeting of Vedic City (..the Global Country people), the University, and the in-town meditator communities where Dr. Nader skype-ed in from somewhere was a good example of some of the dynamic with the three. There is a lot going on. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : Someone provided the text pasted further below on the side. It seems to have a fair capture of some current TM ethnography in it's narrative as to what we see and hear here in Fairfield, Iowa also. [ Paste of text.. FW: "..I suggested to a friend who hears quite a bit of the thinking of higher-level TMO persons to read the discussion and tell me what she thought. She had some interesting perspectives on what she read here. Here are a few points from a long dinner conversation earlier tonight, they are abbreviated – and so keep in mind they lack much of the nuance of what she said. Keeping that in mind, I found them quite interesting (i.e. some very different perspectives than would have occurred to me) and so I thought I would offer them as information here. 1. Re: King Tony. The ‘ruling from silence’ spiel that was played around the time of MMY’s death was a way of dealing with a combination of factors: 1) Tony was not comfortable with public speaking of the kind expected of MMY’s appointed successor; 2) He went through a long period of being overwhelmed and was pressured to stay on. 2. TMO’s thinking is not as fixed regarding King Tony’s role as she picked up people on FFL-2 seem to think based on her reading on this topic in FFF-2. It’s constantly evolving. TMO higher-ups are sticking to what they consider to be MMY’s core principles, but how that plays out is certainly not fixed. 3. Something she said that really struck me (but made sense when she said it). How King Tony is perceived by those who work for the TMO (the ‘beige suits and saris’ brigade as she called them) is NOT a concern or focus for TMO bigwigs. She brought this up because it seemed to be such a significant train of thought here on FFL-2. Logic: By the time somebody becomes a ‘beige suit/sari person’ they have already accepted the whole TMO culture, and if they change their mind, they can leave – there will be others to take their place. [Think of the millions who follow royalty, particularly in Britain – more below.] 4. TMO believes it is only a matter of time before the world begins to take notice of the TMO as a major force in the world (as she and I remember MMY saying in the 70’s). The focus among TMO bigwigs is how King Tony is perceived by the public when this happens – and the preparation for this is ongoing in a very focused manner. 5. She’s aware of the Florida digs, expensive schools (she did not know about the flying lessons). Also indicated that the rumor is that he has similar digs in Paris, and there are plans for major (think Buckingham Palace luxury digs – but vastu) in every continent. She has no idea where the money comes from, but she assumes it is TMO money. One point she made was about the vast divide between the Florida digs discussion she read here in FFL-2 and ‘TMO-think’: These ‘Florida digs’ are only a pittance – what is being attempted is the creation of the equivalent of a British royal family type setup (all the palaces, pageantry, jewels, private planes, embassies in every country in the world, etc.), but not just in one country – in every continent. Also, this is not King Tony only – it is intended as the beginning of dynasty that will last for thousands of years. The money spend on the Florida digs doesn’t even reach the level of peanuts. 6. The current plan that is playing out is portraying King Tony as a ‘secular, brilliant scientist’, ‘knowledge not spiritual/religious’ king, who when #4 happens as TMO bigwigs believe it will, King Tony will be on the world stage in a way similar to the British royal family (her best analogy, she says). A king who dresses up ceremonially when needed, but will also be seen as a somewhat ‘regular’ guy (but not really) who flies airplanes, lives in the world, wears jeans sometimes, wears a suit sometimes, has a beautiful wife who does the celebrity/expensively dressed/bejewelled thing, etc. etc. Again, King Tony's image/way of life is being created for the world, not for TMO people. 7. Finally…one of her best analogies (which she emphasized was not her own, but from conversations within TMO): ‘Don’t think ‘Pope Francis royalty’ or ‘Dalai Lama royalty’ – their days are numbered (!), and they will never appeal to the masses in the way the TMO believe secular monarchy will. Think Prince Charles/British royalty. So there you have it, I guess, for what it’s worth. Yes, interesting dinner conversation alright. FWIW, see below for some comments on your thoughts. My friend and I chat fairly regularly about the goings-on in the TMO, so some of my comments reflect her thinking over time. I think your friend gives too much credit to the guiding lights of the TMO - Marshy and Company had one over all schtick - and that was and is, "Just do what we say, believe what we say and ignore any anomalies you spot along the way. Don't question, just believe." <-- My friend would agree you with on this completely. She's often said that she realized that this was true a long time ago ( ~ 30 years), but she doesn't work for the TMO and takes what she needs and leave the rest. [She's in a close relationship with a 'TMO big(ish)wig', but he does this thing, and she does hers. That attitude stood them in good stead for decades. No need to change the formula now. I don't think there is any grand plan to present Tony as any sort of secular worldly kind of guy. If that is the case then they are going to have to confiscate all of the videos that exist of his absurd veda in the human physiology theories, the photos and videos of him wearing his royal vestments and being bowed and scraped to by the Movement's True Believers. <-- I see what you're saying, but her point is that the TMO's point of view is completely the opposite to yours: the TMO does not see these two elements - airplane flying, living a life of material uber-luxury, etc. (on the one hand) and veda theories, royal vestments, being bowed to and scrape two by TBs, etc. (on the other hand) - as being unacceptable to the public when it begins to take notice of TMO/King Tony in a big way. The TMO is making no attempt to hide the two elements - quite the opposite. Again, she used the example of the British royal family (according to her that is what she often hears the TMO bigwigs aspire to): e.g they dress up in all sorts of fancy 'gear' and 'vestments' (e.g. for opening of Parliament, numerous other pageantry events), their titles (HM, HRH), people bowing and scraping to them all the time <-- it's a rule apparently...:). Then, at the same time, the dress 'down' in suits/jeans/fly airplanes/own endless palaces/own and race horses. I know it may seem to you (and many others) that the TMO will not be able to pull this off, but she says - and I have seen this going back 40 years now - is the TMO TB's complete 100% confidence that they will pull it off - that this is the destiny of the TMO. I can only speculate but I bet Tony's wife had a lot to do with their leaving Fairfield - she didn't want to live in a pig farming community - she wanted and got the life of the rich and famous. <-- According to my friend, they've never lived in FF - just visited now and again. Yes, she believes the same as you do - she's 'met' Tony's wife, and as she said to me at the weekend (laughing) 'Would Tony's wife live in FF? Not in a million years.' Given the other worldly attitudes, arrogance and follow our lead mentality the Movement's upper crust all have, I doubt they have given a moment's thought to the perception of the world towards Emperor Antonio. <-- FWIW, her experience is that its a major part of their perpetual PR - but see below. They don't care what the non-TM crowd thinks because they consider themselves too far above the rest of the world to consider non-meditators' ideas or evaluations to be of importance (you know that's true). <-- Actually, no I disagree with you completely here, although there are some nuances in my disagreement if I can put it that way. Yes, they do consider themselves to be far above the rest of the world as of now, but they also believe that 'as consciousness rises', the world will come around to the TMO way of thinking - and they want to have the institutional structure (as they see it) ready when 'the world comes around'. I know it seems crazy, but it's what they think. I remember being at a meeting (not small, large gathering) with MMY in the 70's where he said something like this: 'America isn't ready for Hinduism yet. That time will come, and I'll tell them when it does." Well, as we know he didn't live long enough to see that, but that is very definitely the TMO point of view. I suspect the raja and elite part of the TMO to be on board with King T's lifestyle as right and proper, and as usual they expect the lowly meditators, sidhas, low level governors (the ones who have no prestige and status within the Movement and no money) to quietly revere King T and go along with whatever they are told. <-- Absolutely. That is exactly what they expect (and that there will always be enough people in the pipeline who will continue to do that). And I doubt that they think any of the Movement's faithful would ever go poking around on the net to find anything out about King Antoine's life, so they think his lifestyle is a non-issue. <-- My only thought here, which really is not a response, is how much you seem to believe that TMOs bigwigs think about meditators/sidhas/governors. My friend's experience (which gels with mine when I worked with the TMO) is that they give very little thought to them - they are taken for granted. My friend's comment at the weekend was how struck she was at the difference between the perception in the discussion here and the reality as she sees it of how much governors etc. are taken for granted. Look at their response when after years of promoting the falsehood that King T was the epitome of Purusha that included a celibate lifestyle, it was revealed he had a wife and kids tucked away in Paris - no embarrassment, no sorry we lied, nothing like that - just Oh, Marshy told him it was ok cause the old rajas had wives and all like that. No mention of the fact that Tony and the Movement lied to everyone for years about it. <-- Actually, a significant part of what you say here is not true. I worked in the TMO when King Tony was appointed. It was made clear by MMY (not widely, but to those of us who were around) that the position was hereditary - the goal was that Tony was the first king of this new era, he would get married and he would produce a son, etc. He was not portrayed in any way as being a celibate Purusha. People may have assumed this or projected this on to him, but I was around when all this was happening and it's not true. [Much humor has been spent in the years since given that nature does not seem to have cooperated as he has two daughters, and women being leaders was not part of MMY's plan. The rule apparently - and it is practiced - is that Raja's wives walk three steps behind their husbands in TMO gatherings, when they appear at all.] You are correct, of course, about the fact that Tony being married and having two children was hidden for several years. If any of the lowly TM'ers take issue with it, they'll just say Marshy approved it before he died unless George what's his name got a recent message from the Old Leader. But I bet y'all had an interesting dinner! And that's all my news - far more than I intended to write. end paste] # ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : It seems a religious war (ideology) between the two, that is not very spiritual. The Religious Cohort of Anti-TM, and the Religious TM'ers. Evidently a community of what one may see as ‘religious’ that seems to remain inside of TM is quite small as so too is its opposition of anti-TM’ers outside in cohort are relatively small. But both are quite active and sophisticated in doggedly using a machinery of PR media in vying with their counter across and over a middle ground, each side with a hoping to dispute and win ground of public opinion against the other extreme and maybe even plow the other under. To countervail: to exert force against an opposing and often bad or harmful force or influence valence, the amount of power of an atom which is determined by the number of electrons the atom will lose, gain, or share when it forms compounds Cohort, In statistics, a cohort is a group of subjects who have shared a particular event together during a particular time span. Originally used to describe a military unit in ancient Rome. To vail: take off or lower (one's hat or crown) as a token of respect or submission. Take off one's hat or otherwise show respect or submission to someone. Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sun...@yahoo.com> wrote : We know one thing, they spend one helluva of a lot of time ranting and raving about it here and on the other site, pretty much all hours of the day. That tells ya something! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesedwuz@...> wrote : Is Anti-TM a New Religion? Well, if we consider religion to be a pointer to something it no longer contains, then the answer is "yes". Just as those who go to church regularly because it strengthens their beliefs, so do these naysayers regularly repeat themselves, feeling "safer" inside the boundaries of their "important discoveries". Taking on something like the obvious corruption within the TMO by posturing on forums is another way of saying, "I don't have a life", writ large. So, depending on the degree of obsession, I would say that "Anti-TM" has become a de-facto religion for some. I tend to be wary of those who are either always extolling spiritual and religious experience, or always knocking it. Both are somewhat unbalanced, as I am sure their daily lives indicate. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote : Is Anti-TM a New Religion? Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers. Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated within the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, the interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort as what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM, The Religious Cohort of Anti-TM,, Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'. [Federal Court opinion: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesedwuz@...> wrote : yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM. This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote : Strange, ain't it. Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save someone from themselves. As if there is not abundant information to peruse with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to take on the role. What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And then, you must ask, where does it end. The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant" ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it actually is. Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them to darw it to their attention or we aren't very good friends. If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan wouldn't you tell them if you knew? Yet the TMO gets many millions from selling prayers and all the while setting up a pseudo-scientific justification in the shape of Marshy's crap lectures about the unified field and continuing with John Hagelin's equally crap videos about string theory. It's a deliberate attempt to mis-sell something. The funny thing is they claim to be interested in science and yet they never put any of the more dubious products on the TM price list under any sort of serious scrutiny. Now, this discussion about Nader and how he could possibly have so much money (how much does he have? ) seems like many are jumping to conclusions about his guilt with regard to the Movement handing over millions of dollars to him for some reason. Why would they do this? Is he worth that much to them? I don't know Nader from a hole in the ground other than, I believe, he possesses a gold outfit complete with crown in his closet. I suggest people get some hard facts before proclaiming his guilt from the rooftops. BTW, where did you get your information? Judy seems to think that is important and you didn't answer that question in your response here. Judy has consistently demonstrated that she is an idiot to the extent that I never read her posts. She knows as well as I do where all this information about King Tony comes from. Is there another explanation for the wealth of the Nader family other than the TMO setting him up as some sort of world leader in waiting? If there is I haven't seen it, as he's a public figure appointed by Marshy to be the hereditary ruler of his domain I think we are owed an explanation. But I don't trust the TMO about money for the reasons I have stated. Nonprofit Financial Statements - FindLaw http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html Nonprofit Financial Statements - FindLaw http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html Question: Do 501(c)(3) non-profit corporations have to make their financial statements available to the public? Answer: Yes. Non-profit corporations ... View on smallbusiness.findlaw... http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html Preview by Yahoo
