--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > This issue of one or more persons (sometimes the
> > majority of active posters) perceiving one partic-
> > ular poster as consistently angry, and abusive
> > because of that anger, suddenly "clicked" for me
> > this afternoon. I had known that it reminded me
> > of something, but I had not been able to figure
> > out *what* it reminded me of.
> >
> > Bingo! Got it. It reminded me of visiting America
> > recently, my first trip back in over two and a half
> > years.
> >
> > Unless you've lived *outside* the country for a while,
> > and are just re-entering it, you really aren't going
> > to get (or believe) what I'm saying, and in fact you'll
> > get angry about it, and say to yourself, "He's full of
> > shit."
>
> You're full of shit, Barry.
Dr. Pete would applaud you. Direct confrontation. No hiding behind
satire, sarcasm, passive-aggressivism, parody, irony, etc.
Thats the kind of direct talk he likes. (Except apparently when it
insults his non-existing ego as Irmeli and Akasha posts / exchanges
with DR PS seem to indicate).
[I would suspect the above, last sentence would be seen as
"passive-aggressive" by Dr. Pete. But he sees PA "everywhere". Maybeit
is "everywhere". But it reminds me of the guy with abig hammer to whom
EVERYTHING looks like the head of a nail.
Well the PA hypothesis is certainly a hypothesis for consideration. I
will ponder it. However, such a comment is also parallel and
characteristic to what commonly is termed "observational humor". A
favorite mode of many favorite comics and on-liner adficionados
(Seinfeld, Leno, Carlin -- and Barry).
It raises the question: is observational humor passive-aggressive?
Always? Never? Sometimes? I will openly consider the full range of
these questions. Still like some, I laugh at the notion of a "non-ego"
that does not exist, being insulted. Call me sick if you must, but
THATS funny.
> I know this going in, because that's the very
> > phenomenon I'm talking about.
>
> "If you agree, it's because I'm right. And if you
> disagree, why, it's becauase I'm right."
Yes, there are some funny exchanges going on. Using Dr Petes favorite
analogy (used to describe discussion and incredibility of his
"realization") but in this context, generalized to "you are angry" or,
for that matter, any assertions made by others to oneself:
Its raining. I am walking in the rain. I am soaking wet and
someone insists I am perfectly dry. if One agrees (with the wrong
statement) its because the observer is "right". If one disagrees (with
the wrong statement) you are in denial -- and the observer is still
"right". It gets funnier because the observers in recent exchanges
then say -- I can't and I refuse to talk to you unless you acknowledge
I am right (regardless of how silly my claims are"), you are perfecly dry!
> In the lingo of the anti-cult cult, that's what's
> known as a thought-stopper.
I would suggest the above is at least also a thought stopper.
> > I would say that MOST (and by "MOST" I mean 80-90% of
> > the people I interacted with during my week in America
> > were ANGRY.
>
> I don't imagine you've thought to ask yourself whether
> the folks you were interacting with were angry because
> your snotty, elitist way of dealing with people pissed
> them off.
Yes, when someone comes up to you in person, or the list, and says
"Why are you so angry!?", and you say, "gee, I am not angry", that
DENIAL is something they sometimes interpret as anger. As some
obervational humorists would say "Go figure!"
> Or because they *aren't* afraid, and you "mentioned
> your perception" to them in a way that was designed
> to piss them off so you could validate your own
> wishful thinking.
>
> In my experience and observation, people who make a
> big deal about how angry somebody else is are
> *afraid* of anger, in particular their own anger.
I think projecion is always a good hypothesis to consider.It may not
always be active, but more so than many realize, IMO.
> Typically, when they were young, these people were
> routinely punished for expressing anger, and they
> internalized the notion that anger was a Bad Thing--
> not just Bad, but Dangerous to their very survival.
>
> Once they've grown up, they have a tendency to
> deliberately provoke anger in others whom they
> perceive to be threats, because that way they can
> feel in control; they've learned to suppress their
> own anger, so they can then look down their noses
> at the people whom they've made angry. In their
> minds, that defuses the threat and reduces the
> Anger Danger they so fear.
Ineresting dynamic. Not always applicable, but always a worthy
hypothesis to consider. In ones own reactions, but also in trying to
understand "not so apparently rational" behavior in others.
This list is a great lab for that.
> And THEN they'll
> > deny that they're angry.
> >
> > It's just the weirdest thing. Why I think it relates
> > to issues here on FFL is that a number of the posters
> > whom a lot of people agree are out-of-control angry
Is not the first time Barry has seen others as "out-of control" angry.
Odd he can be so sure, being 6000 miles away, and dealing with people
he has never met and knows nothing of their lives.
There is nothing wrong with positing a hypothesis that some "name"
6000 miles a way is "out of control angry". What intrigues me is the
absolute assuredness of such diagnoses by Barry, Dr. Pete and Tom.
Maybe their "enlighenment" gives them such abilities. Maybe their
internal "fullness" -- if they indeed experience that (their "suck
eggs" attitudes makes one wonder) -- gives them a false sense of
assuredness. Like cocaine does. Or maybe ...
> > DENY that they're angry. Well, I don't think that they
> > KNOW consciously that they're angry.
But Barry,who knows nothing about them and their lives, in a short
observation DOES Know. Go Figure!
> > Sadly, this is my (and a lot of Europeans')
No sense of expat superiority here thank god.
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