--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> > > > wrote: > > > > > [...] > > > > > > True, but not necessarily "sad," if you mean they're not > > > > > > experiencing transcendental consciousness by itself. If > > > > > > the process never becomes automatic, that *is* "sad," but > > > > > > only in the sense that the person hasn't really got the > > > > > > knack of TM. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kill that Buddha, Judy. You're addicted to absolute > > > effortlessness. > > > > > > > > <grin> > > > > > > I was serious Judy. > > > > I know you were. I was appreciating the comment. > > > > > Perhaps TM is always effortless for you in the > > > way that you have described, but you presented it as somehow > > > *superior* to someone who doesn't have that experience. > > > > Depends what you mean by "superior." All I'm saying > > is that this is what TM *is*. I don't give myself > > any credit for having this experience. > > By contrast, you implied superiority: you said anyone who didn't > have that experience hadn't gotten the knack of TM.
Certainly not *personal* superiority. But if you want to do TM, it's "better" to get the knack of it than not, right? That's the only sense of "superiority" I had in mind. > > I just think that claiming that TM inherently involves > > effort is a self-fulfilling prophecy for those who buy > > into it. I'm using my own experience to argue against > > this claim because it's the only experience about which > > I can speak with any authority. > > My own take is that MMY struck the balance he intended to strike > between expectations of effort and non-effort. If you believe > that "real" TM is always effortless, you are lead into one trap. If > you believe that "real" TM always involves at least some subtle > effort, you're lead into another. You may be right with regard to people who are just learning; "innocence" is important. Where this started was my mention of Vaj's post some months back in which he analyzed the checking procedure in such a way as to *prove*--he thought-- that TM *requires* effort. (Unfortunately he deleted the post after I asked him if he'd repost it to alt.m.t, so we can't refer to it now.) In such a context, I think it's important to challenge that view. MMY strikes a balance by not insisting on either effortlessness or effort; but when somebody's pounding the table and insisting that it *does* require effort, the only way to strike a balance is to pound the table and insist that it's effortless. (And hopefully be able to back it up.) > > > That's a subtle expectation, right there. > > > > Ooh, I dunno, not during meditation itself, it > > isn't. Effortlessness in the TM sense *can't* be > > an expectation, it can only be an experience (or, > > as you often point out about transcendence, the > > *absence* of experience: there's no "there" there). > > Meditation isn't a light-switch, in my experience. You don't start > meditating and somehow leave all expecations behind (unless you do > the big-T transcend immediately for the full 20 minutes). Your > expectations about TM outside TM practice certainly influence what > goes on *during* TM practice. Yeah, but as I say, effortlessness in the TM sense *can't* be an expectation. You can only expect *something*, you can't expect *nothing*. Or to put it another way, any expectation of effortlessness that you might have wouldn't be effortlessness in the TM experiential sense. An expectation is intellectual; effortlessness isn't. Apples and oranges. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
