In the below Barry says that "Buddhism believes that the universe is eternal, and that there has never been and will never be a moment in which the universe was not manifest and created."
In fact, I've noticed (while lurking) that he quite often makes this assertion. But it's my impression that this is just plain wrong - Buddhism does NOT say this. The question of whether the world is eternal or not eternal is one of the Buddha's 'ten indeterminate questions'. In fact, Buddhism says that - it is not true that world is eternal - it is not true that world is not eternal - it is not true that world is both eternal and not eternal - it is not true that world is neither eternal nor not eternal One interpretation (which is plausible to me) of why the Buddha called such questions 'indetermine', is that to give any answer to them (e.g. to the question "is the universe eternal") is to commit a category error. Here is an example of an indeterminate question that is easy to spot as such: Suppose a fire which had been burning before you were to go out. If someone were to ask in which direction the fire had gone, north, south, east, or west, what would you reply? I got this from this website: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/avyaakata.html which has a nice discussion on these issues. Regards, Geoff --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yhvhworld" <yhvhworld@> > wrote: > > --- > > Thanks for posting this(below) excellent discourse! What > > he says is apparently true in regard to what may come > > "later" - after the primal sounds and so forth. > > > > OTOH, Buddhism is no less "Dharmic" than Saivite Hinduism, > > but the Buddhist Masters cognize their own Scriptures. > > MMY seems to equate "Vedic" with "good" (if it's not > > Vedic, then it isn't worth a hill of beans). All > > Buddhist teachers would disagree with this. > > I think the difference in the two systems (Hindu and > Buddhist) as to how they view "cognition of truth" > is related to the baseline assumptions that underly > each tradition. > > Hinduism is very much a "creation myth-based" belief > system; it's linear. There was a moment of First Creation, > with gods and goddesses and beings of power directly > involved with the Creation. Buddhism believes that the > universe is eternal, and that there has never been and > will never be a moment in which the universe was not > manifest and created. So it makes sense that the Hindu > system would "look for" truth in something that supposedly > was "closer" to the "moment of Creation" (in other words, > in their myth system, the Vedas) than the Buddhists would. > The Buddhists are free to look for truth in pretty much > anything in creation, at any moment in time. > > Hinduism believes very strongly in a "fall from grace," > similar to the Christian fall from Eden. Because time > *is* linear in its view, there have been various Yugas, > and like everything else in the Hindu system, these > Yugas or time periods are hierarchical. The oldest > (closest to the moment of Creation) are considered > "higher," more evolved; the later ones (further away > from the moment of Creation) are considered "lower." > (And then everything repeats itself, like a stuck record.) > > Again, Buddhism, not burdened with the notions of > linear time and a hierarchical representation of that > time, considers every moment as NOW and allows for the > full cognition of truth in every moment, whether the > object or moment being used as a trigger for cognition > took place centuries ago or a moment ago. In the Buddhist > system it is as easy to cognize truth right here, right > NOW as it ever was at any moment in time. Therefore, > Buddhists don't have the same built-in reverence for > and preference for scriptures of the past that Hindus have, > and are more willing to look to everyday objects around > them as having as much innate meaning and truth as > the scriptures of old have. > > Finally, Hinduism has a strong element of predetermination > in its models of consciousness. There is a strong feeling > that "nothing is new under the sun," that you are merely > "rediscovering" ancient truth, as opposed to stumbling > upon a brand-new way of appreciating truth, or as opposed > to actually discovering a new truth. Because many Hindus > assume that they are *not* in charge of their own ability > to evolve and realize enlightenment, much less their > ability to perform their own actions, they are less likely > to consider themselves capable of cognizing any "new" > truth in the everyday world around them. Instead, in their > view divine forces cause them or enable them to "rediscover" > truth in the "oldest" objects, the Vedas. > > Buddhists have no problem with regard to taking credit > for their own initiative, or with doing something "new," > cognizing some new truth in the everyday objects of the > world around them. The Buddhist "operating system" is > based on each individual having total free will; there > is no sense of predestination or of having one's actions > "led" or "determined" by an outside agency. Therefore > Buddhists are free to try new things, to experiment, and, > occasionally, to *find* new truths in the everyday objects > of NOW. > > Anyway, the purpose of all of this is not to start a > Hindu/Buddhist dick-size contest. :-) I just think that > it's important, when comparing Buddhism to most other > philosophical systems on the planet, to realize *how* > different its baseline assumptions are from most of the > others. Buddhism doesn't believe in a Creation, in a > Creator, in the "better-ness" of the past as opposed to > the present (or a "better" future, for that matter), > and it *does* believe in total free will (within the > boundaries of a wonderful teaching mechanism called > karma). > > All in all, these are *very* different baseline assumptions > than those that would be made by a Hindu, or a Christian, > or a Jew, or whatever. Not better, but vive la différence. > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! 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