--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:15 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > > Look my source for any info I have on the DL are the movies > > > > " Seven > > > > years in Tibet", "Kundun" and that Snow Lion documentary. > > > > > > > > If I've got it wrong, blame Martin Scorcese and Brad Pitt... > > > > Or blame someone so stupid and lazy that he bases > > his bigoted rant against Tibetant Buddhism on the > > little he's seen in the movies. :-) > > Are you saying that Martin Scorcese was wrong?
No, merely that for cinematic reasons he shortened a month-long process into about three or four minutes of screen time and that you, like many equally-brain- dead, lazy Americans, thought that those three to four minutes portrayed the whole story. :-) Also, that *as* a brain-dead, lazyass, incurious American, you were content to *settle* for the "movie version" rather than looking into the reality, and exerting a little effort to find out more. :-) > How about the documentary "Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion"? > > If I'm wrong in my analysis, why not tell me where I'm wrong? Well, since you asked...basically I think you're an angry guy who has spent thirty years or so pursuing a spiritual path that has never paid off for him in terms of direct spiritual experience. Therefore, you are jealous of and want to fuck with those whose paths *have* paid off for them in terms of spiritual experience. What gets you off is trying to find things that'll enable you to put down those who have had experiences you have not. In other words, your operating system is Aesopian: sour grapes. You'd rather put down someone else's experiences than do a little work to have your own. :-) > > > Read John Avedon's _In Exile From the Land of Snows_. > > > > Or, much better, read: "The Fourteen Dalai Lamas: A > > Sacred Legacy of Reincarnation," by Dalai Lama XIV, > > Glenn H. Mullin, and Valerie Shepherd. > > > > This book lists the historical "tests" that were > > performed to verify that the kid named as the rein- > > carnation of the previous Dalai Lama really was. > > Unlike the "movie version," the tests often went > > on for a month, five or six such tests per day. > > Failing *any* of them meant that the kid was not > > the right one. > > hahahahahahahahaahaha. > > Dear, dear Barry. I've seen to hit a sore spot. You'd like to think that. But the reality is that, *unlike you*, I've actually *studied* with Tibetan teachers who could *demonstrate* the basis on which they can track beings through their incarnations. I've been there, done that as they did it. It's an utterly fascinating, nigh unto mindblowing experience. And yes, it makes *absolutely no sense* to someone who is attached to Western ways of seeing and think- ing, but damn! -- when you are there participating in the process -- damn if it doesn't work. Go figure. > The man who takes every opportunity to hit the TMO > for weird and crazy things and here you are defending > probably one of the weirdest cults of them all: one > that chooses its leader based on some sort of > fairy tale about reincarnation! > > hahahahahahahahahaha. Laugh while you can, Monkeyboy. (Trivia question here...who can name the movie that the above quote comes from?) :-) The issue, Shemp, is that you're laughing at a group of people who have more knowledge than you do about a certain subject -- death, dying, and reincarnation. And you're laughing at them and trying to put them down, when what a *smart* seeker would be doing is trying to figure out what they know, and whether it might be useful. Did you notice, only a few days ago, how *quickly* the subject of death, dying and reincaration *DIED* here on FFL? The subject came up, a few TMers posted the few rumors that they'd heard about the subject from within the TM movement or from other Indian sources, and a couple of people posted a few more tangible things they'd learned from the Tibetan teachers with whom they'd actually studied. And within a day the subject was no more. Over. Fini. Ignored as if it had never happened. I thought it was a fascinating exchange. The *reason* the subject died so quickly was -- in my opinion -- because the TMers realized how little they actually *knew* about death and dying, and about how the reincarnation process actually works. They were able, when the subject came up, to report only *rumors* that they'd heard from *non-official* TM sources. The discussion made it clear that *at no point* in their entire TM "career" had anyone sat them down and explained to them what death and dying were all about, and how they could best prepare for it. I guess my point is that when it comes to the process of death, dying, and rebirth, you are *not* likely to find out anything of worth by studying with anyone from an Indian/Hindu background. Whereas, if that is one your interests, you *are* likely to find out a little of how it all works by studying with a tradition that has delved into this subject for thousands of years, with some success. That is, Tibetan Buddhists. They've got a clue, in my opinion. In my opinion, NO ONE I've *ever* encountered from an Indian/Hindu-based tradition does. They are basically *clueless* as to what happens when they die, and often as fearful of dying as the "man on the street." (Just look at Maharishi hiding in his sterile room, afraid to even interact with other human beings...is this how some- one who is 'established in Brahman' or even unafraid of death would act?) And to be even more in your face, death is going to happen -- to YOU -- far sooner than you want it to. You personally are going to DIE within twenty years, and probably closer to ten. You're going to be lying on your deathbed, still knowing as little about what lies in front of you when your body breathes its last breath as you do today. You'll be about to dive into an experience that is as much a mystery for you as it was the day you were born. Whereas a lot of people who have actually studied with the tradition you like to make fun of (Tibetan Buddhism) will just be getting ready to perform a series of meditational exercises that they've been preparing for their whole lives. For those who have prepared for the Bardo experience, their journey to enlightenment is just beginning. A new adventure is about to take place. But for those of you who never bothered to learn what dying is all about, and the opportunities that the Bardo provides for realization, you will be ready to give up at the moment of death. I'm just sayin', Shemp...that the time before you die might be better spent figuring out what dying is all about than it would be trashing the only people on the planet who seem to be able to *teach* you what dying is all about. But nothing I will say will have an effect. You will just react to this the same way you always do when someone posts about experiences you have never had, and try to put down both the experiences and the person reporting them. And then you'll go back to wallowing in being ignorant, never having made even an *attempt* to learn something new and interesting. And this will keep happening -- over and over and over -- until the day you die. And *then* it will keep happening *after* you die, too. Dying is all about habits, Shemp. IMO, your habits are going to lead you to a much lower birth than you needed to settle for. But it seems likely that you *will* settle for it. Bottom line...if you want to discuss the Tibetan lore about death, dying, and reincarnation, you actually have to do some fuckin' *homework* and read about it. Ask me which books to read, and I'll tell you. But until you *have* read them, I have to write you off as a typically stupid, brain-dead American -- Ignorant And Proud Of It. ------------------------ Yahoo! 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