--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2006, at 4:59 AM, t3rinity wrote:
>
> > From what I know, and what I have seen
> > in the Satsang movement, this is exactly what is being done there: The
> > truth of non-duality is being pointed out and explained in terms of
> > his own everyday experience, it is being discussed, and quite often
> > people are guided towards self-inquiry ('who am I'.)
>
>
> Yes this is what is happening in some cases IMO. Pointing out.
It is ALWAYS happening. Its the core of the teaching: that anybodies
ultimate identity is Brahman, the Self whatever you like to say.
Should I give you quotes of the Ribhu Gita (highly recommended by
Ramana), or Avadhuta Gita?
> However at the same time after some are "introduced" they go on
> rather quickly to claim Buddhahood, Unity Consciousness (brahma-
> chetana), Cosmic Consciousness (turiyatita) or in the case of TMO
> people, they go on to claim what "Maharishi said".
I don't know about that. In the Satsangs that I observered, nobody
stands there saying: 'I am enlightened and you are not' I indeed have
never heard of this. You may here something like: 'Enlightenment is a
concept, get rid of it' or, ' you are already what you are seeking'
etc. All these claims can be perfectly substantiated by scriptures. I
am happy to cite, if you don't believe me. So, the point for me is
not, is there anybody invalidly claiming enlightenment, or even
different levels (equating them with completely different terminology
like CC or UC, something I have never heard in the Satsang scene), but
rather, does this format of interaction in modern Satsang conform to
something valid, as described in the ancient scriptures, and yes it
does. There are so many Shankaracharyas, giving discourses on Advaita,
and they make no secret that they aren't enlightened. So, really
speaking, and also I know this from my interactions with traditional
Swamis of the Dasanami order, the main stress has always been on the
correct teaching, the message of unity of Atman and Brahman (soul and
God), the message that we are not the localized ego, rather than on
the messanger. Also the scriptures of Shankara state this clearly.
They point out, that whoever tells the (advaitic) truth, he is the
teacher.
> In every case I am
> aware of, none of these people would fit the definition of those
> states or the experience. There's a strong element of grandiosity in
> it all.
To you. I haven't oserved it. To the opposite, the Satsang movement
plays down enlightenment as an 'attainment'. It rather makes it
accessable, just always referring you to the next step. (Like: who is
asking this question?)
> It's interesting, I was reading some prophecies from the 8th century
> regarding when non-dual teaching would start coming to the cities of
> the west and they describe this very phenomenon and what will happen
> very precisely. One of the comments is 'if it were so easy to reach
> perfect Buddhahood, the ocean of samsara would already have been
> drained long ago.'
Surely you must be kidding. When we talk of Advaita - Non-duality - we
are indeed referring to the school of Shankara. Buddhism is basically
dualistic in outlook, and Shankara never taught to attain 'Buddhahood'
Very funny how you mix things indeed.
>
> "Masters of old lashed out at those who claimed to be
> enlightened yet refused to be tested, calling them
> "earthworms living in the slime of self-validated
> satori"."
> -Philip Kapleau Roshi
>
> How many were tested by their teachers? would be my
> question--but I already know the answer.
I was investigating the Satsang movement in the context of its
historic origin, while you mix it with Zen Buddhism and Tibetan
Vajrayana. Now that is weird.
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