>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote:
> <snip>
> > > "The rACC...plays a critical role in the awareness of the
> > > nastiness of pain: the feeling of dislike for it, a loathing so
> > > intense that you are immediately compelled to try to make it
> > > stop."
> > >
> > > Not awareness of pain, but awareness of the "nastiness"
> > > of pain.
> >
> > So someone in CC doesn't think that pain is nasty?
>
> Read it again, Lawson.
... Pain triggers responses in the brain. There may be some difference in how people in CC
respond to pain, but I doubt if it has anyting to do with responding to pain as "less nasty"
than it was prior to CC.
>
> > > I'd suggest it wouldn't be a matter of CC "shutting
> > > down" the rACC, but rather of not triggering its
> > > activity in the first place. The rACC seems to be a
> > > mechanism for making you take action to neutralize
> > > whatever is causing the pain *because pain is often
> > > a signal that the integrity of the physical organism
> > > is being threatened*.
> >
> > And this would be a bad thing because?
>
> I said it would be a bad thing where?
You seemed to be implying tha CC changed this response in some way as though that
were a good thing.
>
> > > But if you aren't attached to the physical organism
> > > because you identify with the Self rather than the
> > > self, you don't need that alarm system to make you
> > > perceive the pain as intolerably unpleasant so you
> > > spring into action to neutralize it. Whatever is
> > > causing the pain is no longer a threat to your
> > > survival because you don't experience your physical
> > > survival as necessary for your existence.
> >
> > Which is a plain stupid thing for CC to do from an evolutionary
> > perspectie and isn't supported by any research that I'm aware of.
>
> Has it ever *been* researched?
Response to pain during meditation is being researched. Response to pain outside
meditation is also being researched. I don't believe any evidence has been found that TM
meditation (at least) changes the way the brain reacts to pain, at least in the sense of
deactivating specific centers.
>
> It isn't "stupid"; it allows you to make a *choice*
> about whether to pay attention to the pain and
> what's causing it, or just to ignore it, depending
> on the situation. In some cases that ability could
> actually *save* your life (I'm thinking, e.g., about
> the guy who sawed off his arm when it was caught
> between two rocks in an isolated place; if he hadn't
> done that, he'd have starved to death.)
Yeah, but one doesn't have to deactivate certain centers of the brain in order to obtain that
ability...
>
> > CC doesn't prevent one from feeling things or
> > worrying about things.
>
> Nor did I say it did.
>
> > All CC appears to be is the establishment of sufficient
> > connectivity in the brain to maintain the stability of Pure
> > Consciousness regardless of whatever transitory mental states are
> > going on, including, one presumes, pain and pleasure.
>
> Exactly.
>
> > > So the rACC, or at least its function of making pain
> > > unpleasant (it may have other functions), would become
> > > irrelevant as a kind of side effect of CC, in this
> > > formulation. There's no longer a *need* for pain to
> > > be an "overwhelming" sensation.
> > >
> > > Just a guess...
> > >
> >
> > There's no "side effect" to CC
>
> Sure there are, at least in the sense I'm using
> the term.
I don't think so. CC is just the long-distance communication of the parts of the brain
acting in a way that supports the experience of PC along with relative states. There are
changes in how someone responds to various stimuli but they are not along the lines of
shutting down normal brain centers.
>
> : its just the brain better maintaining the global connectivity
> > of Pure Consciousness along with the normal activation of various
> states whether major
> > states like waking, dreaming and sleeping, or localized
> activiations like paying attention to
> > music, thought or pain or pleasure. CC isn't something UNusual --
> its just plain old
> > normalcy at its most normal.
> >
> > The rACC or whatever doesn't change its activiation much, if
> > any, in CC.
>
> And you know this how?
Because there's no mention of it in any of the EEG and fMRI research findings on TC or CC
that I hav heard of.
One of the guys that invented PET did so so he could investigate the effects of
accupuncture on pain. He's been working with OrmeJohnson on the brain imaging of the
pain response during TM. I don't' recall anything remotely like this coming out of their
research though I'm not sure its been published yet.
>
> The brain becomes a bit more efficient in CC, but CC doesn't lead to
> some
> > drastic increase or decrease of the activation levels of the
> various parts of the brain
> > outside of TM practice --they just work *together* more efficiently.
>
> You might want to read the whole article, actually.
> That would give you a clearer picture of what's
> involved here, I think.
>
> (I am *not* suggesting that this particular scanning
> technique for chronic pain patients induces anything
> like CC, by the way.)
>
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