--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2006, at 10:22 PM, kaladevi93 wrote:
>
> >> You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students
recently
> >> going insane?
> >>
> >> Thanks for reminding me.
> >>
> >
> > I'm sure Vaj might agree, he's mentioned it before here:
Dzogchen
> > begins where Unity
> > ends. At least that's the gist of Shearer's "official" comments,
> > right Vaj?
>
> Well kinda. The basic Dzogchen transmission is the transmission of
> what TMers might parrot as "Unity Consciousness". Shearer says
that
> different darshanas have different states of consciousness as
their
> goal and that Dzogchen's "darshana" (more precisely, it's drsti or
> View) is that of Unity. So, yes, it begins there. But that is only
> part of the story. Much of Dzogchen is beyond anything most Tm
people
> would understand. There is a certain amount of overlap if you
accept
> that Advaita Vedanta (as a darshana) and it's "result", brahma-
> chetana, is similar experientially to the acquisition of the
Dzogchen
> View. Of course TM does not lead to Buddhahood and would certainly
be
> considered a false path on a number of grounds. Most TMers don't
even
> comprehend that both TM and the TMSP are soundly part of the yoga
and
> samakhya darshanas, but expect to somehow, miraculously jump paths
> and Views. Yoga darshana and samkhya darshana both have the same
> result: turiyatita ("CC"). What all of the TMers who claim
> "enlightenment" share in common is that they're describing vikeka-
> khyati, an impermanent state. And short of CC.
>
> It's extremely unpopular to point this failing out.
Perhaps because it's extremely incorrect?
Or perhaps because:
"It really depends on your *definition* (more importantly the
*experiential definition*) of enlightenment. Since that experiential
definition is different for every darshana, the word "enlightenment"
is only accurate if it is compared within a particular darshana. If
you try to compare *across* darshanas (which is actually what you are
doing), you are comparing apples to orangutans (actually much worse).
Since each darshana not only possesses it's own View *and* it's own
intendant logic, arguing across darshanas is a grand logical fallacy
if ever there was one."
