Personally, if I had to make such a choice - having my cat that I have loved for years go though such pain and torture, I would rather get a home for the cat and adopt one that is already declawed - there are quite a few that are in desperate need for homes because they've been abandoned for so many reasons! But that's me; I hate to say it, but sometimes I wonder whether I might almost rather see them dead than declawed....but I'd beg someone to take the cat first.
-----Original Message----- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I deal with ferals too and all of my house cats have been ferals. One cost me two surgeries thanks to biting through a finger...my fault not hers. A lot of older people are on blood thinners, have extremely "thin skin" etc. I've been scratched more times than I can count. Obviously, you have been blessed. I'm in my 50's and recover fairly easily. I know of too many older people without sufficient support who can't recover quickly. I suspect it has to do with the overall health of the individual and the personality of the cat. Personally, I have seen my mother bleed for hours from various (for me) insignificant cuts. As I said, declawing should be the last resort but there are times I feel it is justified. On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:34 PM, Natalie wrote: > That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a > cat with > claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or > scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, > bites are a > natural defense for declawed cats! > > -----Original Message----- > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:40 PM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors > > Those may be very reasonable options for a lot of people. However, I > suspect you overestimate the resources available to everyone. Not > everyone can drive; not everyone has someone who can/will attempt to > trim a cat's nails; not everyone can afford a trip to the vet's every > 2-4 weeks; and not every cat can be rehomed. Mass transit is not > available everywhere. > > I agree that it should be a last resort. However, I am not willing to > condemn everyone who declaws. > On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:25 PM, Natalie wrote: > >> A vet, a vet tech, or a friend could do it - surely a better option >> than >> putting a cat through such torture, not to mention complete >> personality >> change to being withdrawn, morose, or an unpredictable biter! Cat >> bites are >> more dangerous than scratches any time! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org >> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:14 PM >> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors >> >> That is a good option....if the owner is able to trim nails and put >> SoftPaws on. A lot of elderly people don't have the physical >> dexterity or skills to trim nails. In fact, I have watched young >> people who could not master the task. >> On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Natalie wrote: >> >>> A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws >>> and using >>> "SoftPaws" - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a >>> kitten at >>> times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely >>> excruciating - >>> cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the >>> corner, >>> completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org >>> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM >>> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors >>> >>> I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its >>> life.....for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being >>> said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning >>> re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept >>> theirs >>> too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I >>> know >>> now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and >>> patience, >>> planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a >>> declawed >>> cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. >>> On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: >>> >>>> That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and >>>> how many >>>> cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets >>>> are to >>>> blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they >>>> went to >>>> their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept >>>> indoors >>>> only, the vets said "Oh, you have an option to declaw!" Banfield >>>> Health. >>>> The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for "kitten health" - >>>> all the >>>> vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to >>>> them about >>>> declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If >>>> anyone >>>> would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last >>>> year, I >>>> was >>>> informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, >>>> because it's >>>> purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing >>>> since >>>> they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they >>>> might have >>>> reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. >>>> O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched >>>> up or >>>> urine-soaked carpets and furniture.....Besides, not all cats grow >>>> up >>>> to be >>>> scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails >>>> works >>>> well. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org >>>> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna >>>> Taylor >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM >>>> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors >>>> >>>> >>>> Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know >>>> adopted >>>> two >>>> kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. >>>> Yes, I >>>> HAD told her before hand "NO declawing" but people don't listen and >>>> they >>>> always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is >>>> peeing on >>>> the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the >>>> surgery. SIGH >>>> :( >>>> >>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 >>>>> From: at...@optonline.net >>>>> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>>> Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors >>>>> >>>>> Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats >>>>> out just >>>>> because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr >>>>> old >>>>> to >>>> play >>>>> in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I >>>>> hear >>>> "but >>>>> the cat gets out", I tell them that they control the door, period! >>>>> Our >>>>> adoption contract stipulates "strictly indoors" - but, there's no >>>>> real way >>>>> of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and >>>>> hope that >>>>> adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several >>>>> adopted >>>> cats >>>>> over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, >>>>> doesn't >>>>> allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed >>>>> one >>>>> of her >>>>> adopters picking up her cat after spaying....she looked into the >>>>> carrier >>>> and >>>>> noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.....she gave her an >>>>> earful, >>>> but >>>>> what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw >>>>> yet >>>>> another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that >>>>> veterinary >>>>> hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and >>>>> should >>>> a >>>>> customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God >>>>> that my >>>>> other veterinarian would never declaw! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org >>>>> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna >>>>> Taylor >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM >>>>> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge >>>>> drink or >>>> do >>>>> drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. >>>>> The >>>>> same >>>>> reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean >>>>> it's good >>>>> for them. My cats may be "prisoners" in my house but I sleep well >>>>> at >>>> night >>>>> knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are >>>>> pretty >>>>> freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies >>>>> off the >>>>> roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be >>>>> allowed >>>>> outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. >>>>> >>>>> There was a young "individual" (can't call him a man because real >>>>> men do >>>> not >>>>> torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside >>>>> cat and >>>>> over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video >>>>> taped >>>> the >>>>> entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some >>>>> may be >>>>> lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by >>>>> coyotes or >>>>> hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with "cats are wild animals and need to >>>>> live >>>>> outside" point of view. >>>>> >>>>> Just my 2 cents. >>>>> >>>>> Edna >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 >>>>>> From: at...@optonline.net >>>>>> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors >>>>>> >>>>>> As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well- >>>>>> defined - >>>>>> I am >>>>>> responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I >>>>>> would >>>> do >>>>> no >>>>>> less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats >>>>>> that I >>>>>> rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be >>>>>> safe and >>>>>> happy for a long time. >>>>>> Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many >>>>>> and >>>> none >>>>>> are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for >>>>>> cats to >>>> be >>>>>> outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing >>>>>> up, >>>>>> until >>>>> one >>>>>> of our kittens was killed by a car....Unfortunately, it takes >>>>>> many >>>> people >>>>> to >>>>>> understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter >>>>>> tells >>>>>> me >>>> that >>>>>> their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never left....and >>>>>> they >>>> intend >>>>>> to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat >>>>>> may >>>>>> have >>>>>> indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: >>>>>> It >>>> takes >>>>>> ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and >>>>>> WHAM! >>>>>> Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a >>>>>> window, a >>>>>> window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and >>>>>> active. >>>>>> More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to >>>>>> really >>>>>> elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't >>>> believe >>>>>> that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but >>>> there's >>>>> no >>>>>> need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but >>>>>> for >>>> fun >>>>>> and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org >>>>>> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM >>>>>> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat >>>>>> are the main threat to birds. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they >>>>>> have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to >>>>>> 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem >>>>>> like >>>>>> heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside >>>>>> before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been >>>>>> living >>>>>> indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have >>>>>> made >>>>>> us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, >>>>>> cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed >>>>>> to >>>>>> hunt small animals....which is the best nutrition for them. They >>>>>> need >>>>>> to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be >>>>>> free. >>>>>> Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison >>>>>> is a >>>>>> prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for >>>>>> them. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, >>>>>> but >>>>>> this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe >>>>>> area >>>>>> with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to >>>>>> be >>>>>> outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for >>>>>> the >>>>>> indoor life. We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end >>>>>> road >>>>>> with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely >>>>>> see >>>>>> them catch a bird, but they catch many mice & moles. I feel sad >>>>>> to >>>>>> see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is >>>>>> what >>>>>> they were designed to do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lorrie >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one >>>>>>> killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction >>>>>>> for >>>> same. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds >>>>>>>> http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> SomeWhere Sam >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Felvtalk mailing list >>>>>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>>>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Felvtalk mailing list >>>>>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>>>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Felvtalk mailing list >>>>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Felvtalk mailing list >>>>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Felvtalk mailing list >>>>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Felvtalk mailing list >>>>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Felvtalk mailing list >>>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ >>>> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Felvtalk mailing list >>>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ >>>> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Felvtalk mailing list >>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ >>> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Felvtalk mailing list >>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ >>> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Felvtalk mailing list >> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ >> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Felvtalk mailing list >> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ >> felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
