At 5:21 PM -0400 6/21/06, Andrew Stiller wrote:
And of course, in the 20th-21st centuries, "tenor trombone" really means tenor-bass trombone, w. a trigger. I know a lot of first-trombonists prefer the old simplex tenor, because it is lighter in weight and 1st trb. parts almost never need the trigger, but it seems to me that most composers these days assume that even the first trombone can and will play down to low C, not to mention the pedals.
The difference between tenor and bass is less the presence or absence of a trigger, but the size of the bore and the size of the bell. And yes, I've already mentioned (perhaps crossing your post) that the *average* tenor nowadays is a larger bore instrument than the tenor in any pre-1930 orchestra. Even a "jazz" tenor (King 2-B, Conn 6-H) may be larger than 19th century tenors.
At the other end of the scale, I have never been impressed by the timbre difference betw. T-B trombone and bass trombone, and I don't write for it specifically unless I need the low B natural.
An interesting statement. I find that the bass trombone, whether with 1, 2, or 3 triggers, is quite a different instrument from the tenor, with its own unique timbre and gravitas. Of course you have not mentioned one very important factor: the mouthpiece. A Bach 1-G or 1 1/2-G is a true bass trombone mouthpiece, and helps produce the characteristic bass trombone sound. I forget whether Raymond Horton is on this mailing list, but I would value his input on these questions.
For the same reason, though, it doesn't bother me at all if a Btrb plays a 3d trb. part, and I'm sure that are some that implicitly expect a bass trombone there.
No reason why a bass shouldn't play a 3rd part that doesn't require the lower range. It still fattens up the section sound. However, the manager of the regional orchestra I've been playing with hired a substitute 3rd trombonist for one concert, and she was playing a large-bore tenor. We did not have a bass trombone or a bass trombone sound for that concert.
An interesting case is Berg's 1929 _Three Pieces for Orchestra_. Berg asks for 3 tenors and one bass trombone, but in a footnote to the instrument list, Heinz Erich Apostel says that the first trombone part was originally written in alto clef, but changed to tenor clef in the published part w. the composer's blessing. Apostel goes on to say that the part lies so high that it might be better played on an alto trombone or an Eb tenor trumpet--but then at reh. no. 155 Berg asks the first trombone (also the 2d and 3d) to play a louder-than-ff D below the bass staff. Berg specifically expects a "Pedalton," but I don't think any trombonist at all these days would play it that way, but would use the F trigger.
Better to say that any Bb or Bb/F trombonist would use the F trigger. Berg knew exactly what he was doing. Great D is, in fact, a pedal tone (i.e., a fundamental) on an Eb alto trombone, 2nd position, and on no other trombone, and this suggests that he did have an alto in mind no matter what the clef.
Meanwhile the bass trombone is asked to play the D below that--the bottom D on the piano. I heard a performance of this w. the Buffalo Philharmonic where the most amazing blat came out there--just what I think Berg wanted; but to get it that loud, the 4th trb. player was using a contrabass trb. for the whole part.
I would think that if it were "Just what ... Berg wanted," he would have specified contrabass. I suspect that he knew exactly what he wanted, and what it would sound like on the instrument specified.
John -- John & Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
