The arms race is true in orchestras, but can be much more true in live
pop and jazz.
..
About ten or 12 years ago, the Tempataions did a pair of outdoor
concerts with us. They had synths doubling all the orchestra parts at
ffff, and sound guys would come back and tell us that we couldn't be
heard, so we needed to jam the mics in our bells and play as loud as
possible. The volume was deafening on stage.
..
One song (I think it might have been "Ain't Too Proud To Beg", but I'm
not sure) has a break in the middle with a trombone unison sixth
position C. It was pencilled in to double it down an octave, and marked
with as many f's as could fit on the page. We played the octaves as
loud as humanly possible, but, again, they were doubling everything with
hugely amplified keyboards (I take that as a sign that they have played
with orchestras they don't trust to come in, or that they play the show
without brass and don't want to mess with playing any differently with
or without - but can't they adjust their own _volume_ when they have an
orchestra so that the orchestra can be heard?)
..
After the second show, I left to drive overnight up to Cleveland for the
trombone workshop. On the way up , I heard the original recording of
the above mentioned song on the radio. My jaw dropped open - it sounded
like chamber music by comparison - and the trombone Cs were unison only,
very small bore, and light. The recording sounded like about 12
instruments, tops. (And no synths, of course.)
..
Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra
___
Chuck Israels wrote:
Hi Jim et al,
This issue doesn't come up at my school, where most of the students
lack a concept of basic breathing and support. My reference has been
professional circumstances.
Three brief anecdotes:
Many years ago, I kept my friend Dave Taylor company while he
auditioned for the bass trombone spot in the BSO (it took place at
Tanglewood, and I was spending the summer there). Dave was one of
the three biggest sounding players, but the loudest guy (Halliburton,
I think was his name) got the job. To my ears, other differences
were minimal. All of the top applicants were phenomenal.
We used to have an LP (since disappeared) of Sousa music here in the
school music library that was a revelation to me. It was made by
musicians in Sousa's family, his children, I believe, and it sounded
much clearer and more lightly orchestrated (fewer instruments on each
part), and more lightly played, than anything I'd been used to
hearing - almost what we think of as Mozartean in effect. It made me
appreciate the music in new ways.
I played on a recording date in 1963 with JJ Johnson - arrangements
written by JJ for himself, 4 other trombones (Urbie Green and Lou
McGarity, on tenors, Tommy Mitchell and Paul Faulise on bass
trombones, and a rhythm section that included Hank Jones and Walter
Perkins, now available on Verve CD V6-8530). The arrangements and
players were wonderful. The close miked recording sounds quite good
to me now, and the effect is somewhat louder than I remember the
sound in the room, but the impact and feeling of immersion in the
glory of the vibrating air in the studio, even if not quite as loud
as the recording can be played, was orders of magnitude more
beautiful, and it took my breath away. Maybe some of that can be put
through microphones, recordings, and loudspeakers, but there is
something about the sound in the room, un-amplified and un-interfered
with, that doesn't survive the process.
Chuck
On Jun 27, 2006, at 3:44 PM, Williams, Jim wrote:
Chuck and list...
I am also of the opinion that things are getting louder, especially
in orchestras...I had a discussion with Harvey Phillips a while back
about it, and he feels the same way. Compared to 50 or so years
ago, the low brass are gigantic in bore size. What was a bass
trombone back in the day is now merely a "medium-large-bore tenor,"
and the tubas many people use in orchestras are downright
frightening in size. Harvey had no trouble BLENDING with an
orchestra on a 3/4 size Conn tuba with only 4 valves. Is it just me,
or is BLENDING a declining skill? What's it like at your college,
Chuck?
In the recent past, a couple of well-known orchestral tubists
retired, probably due at least in part to chop damage caused by
playing so loud for so long.
I occasionally visit the "major midwestern conservatory" about an
hour from my house and am shocked by the loudness of the brass
playing in the ensembles.
As I may have mentioned in an earlier post, I was amazed when I
played the euphonium that had belonged to the Sousa Band member.
It's a real peashooter compared to what I play now, and it was a day
or 2 of practice before I quit overblowing it.
Even though my history encompasses only 54 years and a day job, I
never thought I'd see a day where the brass had to be separated
acoustically from the strings and winds in rehearsals and live
performance--not a recording session.
Jim
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