Andrew, I hate to correct a man who is such an expert, an you are. But
you have a mistaken impression on a few counts.
" it is just impossible to say what trombone you want without going into
a whole lengthy description."
It is very easy to say what trombone you want. "Trombone" implies a
tenor trombone (in a symphonic or serious contemporary music situation,
it implies a large-bore tenor with an F-attachement.) "Bass trombone"
is the instrument you are trying so hard to call a "contrabass
trombone." "Alto trombone" is another choice - not everybody has one,
but the majority of symphony first players do. That's it, in the
serious world.
In the jazz and commercial world, make the "trombone" assume a smaller
bore tenor without an F attachment, keep the bass the same, leave the
alto out of it.
In your second paragraph, what you are specifically describing is the
modern bass trombone. What you have witnessed, when you see a player
playing a contrabass trombone part "using a different instrument: a very
wide-bore bass trombone..." is simply a player playing a bass trombone.
There is no "extra-wide bore" bass trombone. The bore size is .564
inch, measured (I believe) at the inside of the upper slide. Some
players use a dual-bore slide, making the lower slide a bit larger
(.594, I think is the norm), but that's pretty much it - that's mainly
for a slightly darker sound, there is no low range advantage. The
choice of valves is up to the player. The three valve model you saw was
very briefly experimented with, but did not catch on at all. It was
mainly an attempt by one manufacturer to try to satisfy multiple tuning
preferences all in one instrument. There are a few different
configurations of the double valve around now, but, again, the composer
really doesn't need to worry with them. My bass trombone has two
valves, both of which are removable. When I was having shoulder trouble
and needed a lighter instrument, I found I could play with a single
valve (F with a flat E pull) nearly all the time - I averaged putting on
the second valve once or twice a year. I could even play most
classical and early romantic works with no valve. (If Howard Weiner is
correct, the most common bass trombone during the classical era was a
large bore Bb trombone with no valve.)
BTW, your calculations for the lowest note available on each
configuration are a bit off. Each time the pitch of the basic
instrument is lowered, the needed slide length to lower the pitch gets
longer: The Bb trombone has 7 positions (lowest pedal EE); with the F
valve engaged, barely 6 (CC); with a flat E pull or Eb valve, 5 or 5 1/2
(BBB); a D valve, 5 (BBBb). (Lower notes than this are approximated:
AAA on the Bb trombone in 3rd position, etc... Less identifiable pitch
than the 'legit' notes, when played by themselves, but can work in octaves.)
The tenor trombone that is commonly played in a symphony orchestra today
is a .547 bore (less often the med-large.525). Most modern players use
an F attachment all the time (even 15-20 years ago it was rare to see
first trombonists use them except when required).
---
Andrew again:
"the different 'sizes' of trombone as usually played today are just
minor variants of a single instrument in nontransposing Bb/F, with
varying bore width, and/or additional trigger(s). It is perfectly
sensible, therefore, to refer to them all as simply 'trombones' and let
the player choose an instrument appropriate to the part."
----
Actually, the composer should identify tenor, or bass trombone (or alto,
even) depending on the SOUND that he or she wants. The range of tenor
and bass are not THAT different, but the sound is. Players may still
overrule the composer based on range alone, but at least your intentions
are clear.
Just labeling a part "trombone" causes problems for those of us in the
performing world sometimes - actually often. We have had times when
the composer writes two "trombone" parts, then writes the second part
down to pedal F fortissimo, doubling the double bass section, etc., so
the sound of a bass trombone is clearly needed. But the bass trombonist
could have already been sent home that day (or week!), because the
second trombonist didn't look at his part far enough ahead of time. So
the bass trombonist gets the call to come in for the second rehearsal
(which may be the last rehearsal). (Most often, the player looks
through the folder for that concert the day before the first rehearsal,
then asks the bass trombonist to play the part, then the latter has to
rearrange his life with one day's notice. Not that I'm talking about
anybody specific, here, mind you.) The librarian will NOT make these
decisions - if it says "trombone 2," it goes in that folder.
For certain - DO NOT label your part "contrabass trombone" unless you
really want the big, double-slided BBb Wagner instrument, because that
monster may show up. There are guys out there who own them. Andrew's
"contrabass" in single Bb does not exist, he is just trying to rename
the modern bass trombone.
To confuse things further (I know we have discussed this instrument
before) Kanstul recently started making a "contrabass" trombone in F.
Yes, this is pitched in the same key as the 18th-19th century (even 20th
century in Hungary, for Bartok) bass trombone, but the latter instrument
was a smaller bore than our modern .547 tenor and functioned, in it's
day, as the true bass trombone. The new Kanstul F is larger bore and
bell than the old F bass, and is intended to function and sound as a
contrabass trombone but to be considerably more agile. (Actually, I
must confess - I assumed the bore and bell were definitively larger -
actually, I see at hornguys.com that the slide is the same bore as a
bass dual-bore slide I mentioned above and the bell is a quarter inch
smaller than my over-sized 10 1/2 inch bass trombone bell, so the name
and function are muddied a bit. Purists may want to call this a
"modern F bass trombone" but that will confuse everyone else. I hope to
get to try one of these out in a few months.)
Links:
Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Aug 26, 2009, at 6:57 PM, Ray Horton wrote:
Andrew suggests:
"contrabass trombone (i.e. wide-bore Bb/F bass w. addl. D trigger)"
Just what do you mean, Andrew? Do you mean a contrabass trombone in
BBb, same pitch as a BBb tuba, but with two valves? Not made - no
valves, or one valve only. Either way, the contrabass slide
trombone is an unweildy instrument, not nearly as versatile as what I
THINK you want, which is:
a conventional bass trombone in Bb with two valves. This is never
called a contrabass trombone. In that case
I just knew this was going to happen, but it is just impossible to
say what trombone you want without going into a whole lengthy
description. So here it is:
In my book, I discuss the cbtrb in BBb (double slides). I fully
recognize that it is a very unwieldy instrument, wh. is why it is so
rare. About 10 years ago, however, I gradually came to the
realization that most players confronted with the existing cbtrb.
literature (Varèse, Wagner, Ligeti, etc.) were using a different
instrument: a very wide-bore bass trombone with either *three*
triggers (F E D) or the usual two, but tuned lower (F Eb or F D). The
extra-wide bore gives secure access to even the lowest pedal tones,
which is to say EE without trigger, CC w. the F trigger, BBB with the
E trigger, BBBb (lowest note of the cbn) w. an Eb trigger and AAA
(bottom note of the piano) w. the D trigger. Such an instrument is
required not only for overt cbtrb parts, but for such extremely
low-pitched trombone parts as the 4th trb in Berg's _Three Pieces for
Orchestra_.
For all other winds, terms such as tenor, bass, or contrabass denote
instruments of distinctly different length and range, but the
different "sizes" of trombone as usually played today are just minor
variants of a single instrument in nontransposing Bb/F, with varying
bore width, and/or additional trigger(s). It is perfectly sensible,
therefore, to refer to them all as simply "trombones" and let the
player choose an instrument appropriate to the part.
However, in listing my ideal brass section, if I had just said "2
trombones" it would not have fully conveyed my wish for two sliding
brass able to cover between them every note from AAA to f''. Thus, I
wrote as I did, and now I have explained it in more detail than most
of you want to hear, and I hope everybody's happy.
And if you haven't had enough, check out www.contrabass.com/ and
especially http://www.contrabass.com/pages/cbtbn.html .
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://www.kallistimusic.com/
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