I agree with you Raymond .... we ought to be able to play what's written, but when I'm writing stuff for any groups to which I have access, I best take GREAT care about ranges, clefs, etc.,, or it just don't get read ... good practice anyway ...
Dean On Sep 16, 2011, at 9:55 AM, Raymond Horton wrote: > Well, it IS standardized, Patrick - you just don't like the > standards. And, > if you circulated your petitions, sent them to all the major > publishers and > got them to change - just who is going to re-engrave all of the > millions of > works that have been notated already, in clefs you don't like? > > Go back to my example of trombonists for a second. I mentioned > the Shostakovitch 5th symphony, I believe. As I recall, the 2nd > trombone > part is in alto clef throughout, with leger lines below to low Ab > and G. > For ONE WHOLE NOTE low F in the first movement, the part switches > to bass > clef! Ridiculous! Take a poll on that one and bass clef would win > (if you > include amateur trombonists in your poll, alto clef would lose in > every > case, no matter what the range). The next week we may play the same > composers 10th, in which the parts are quite high and all written > in bass > clef - absurd! But it's part of being a musician - we read it > because it's > our job. > > Musicians have to read the music that is there. Composers and > arrangers can > write what ever they want, but if you write for established > publishers, you > write to their standards. If you publish yourself - use whatever > clefs you > want, sell to whomever buys, have a grand old time. If you sell > more than > the big publishers, then maybe they will change, and then others > can start > complaining. > > Raymond Horton > Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra > Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC > Composer, Arranger > VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > > > On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 12:18 PM, Patrick Sheehan < > patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Thank you all for the historical practices and experience on what >> you've >> used and seen. >> >> To clarify, I do not have a problem in reading the Treble8 clef >> for tenors, >> I simply find it impractical. >> News flash: We all have to deal with reading multiple ledger lines >> (pianists, flutists, violinists). Don't complain about ledger >> lines; learn >> to read them and be comfortable! We don't have a staff that has >> 10 lines, >> only 5. >> >> >> >> Someone mentioned that the Treble8 clef for tenors much like a >> transposing >> instrument. Correct! In this sense, the tenors are reading >> treble clef >> notes but what's coming out of their throat is an octave lower, >> plus they >> have to think that way too. What sense does that make?! >> >> Some people have said the bass clef for tenors is not used because of >> ledger >> lines. Well, what fixes that? Scrupulous layout (in Finale, >> etc.), and >> stems in both directions. I'm also tired of seeing joined stems >> for tenor >> and bass parts (if the rhythm is the same). No matter who you >> are, it >> keeps >> each voice part on track if they can focus on notehead-stem-lyric >> for their >> own part. But, I could go on and on about practicality. There >> are several >> other notational concepts that I despise, but I'd keep you here >> until the >> apocalypse. >> >> It boils down to this - I just wish everything was standardized: >> just a >> two-stave hymnbook-style choral score with constant stems up >> (soprano & >> tenor) and stems down (alto and bass), with or without the piano >> part as a >> reduction (if its an a cappella work). If the parts are more >> polyrhythmic >> and need to be separated on their own individual staves, then it >> should be >> printed that way (with tenors printed in bass clef, of course). >> Think >> about >> it: Most tenor parts (of TODAY, not centuries ago), only go up to >> F4, G4, >> A4 at the most, so that's only three ledger lines, not seven. I >> think >> that's doable. >> >> >> >> Imagine if cars were made where some had standard the foot pedals, >> but then >> some other types of cars had the accelerator on the left, the >> clutch in the >> middle, and the brake on the right. Imagine the brain-crash you'd >> have in >> trying to drive that car. That's how I feel with the damn Treble8 >> clef. >> It's not a matter of "getting used to it" as someone had stated. >> I AM used >> to it, I just hate it. >> >> >> All male voice parts should be written in bass clef, no >> exception. This >> tells you the differentiation between female and male parts at >> first sight >> (and eventually, all "sights."). If the tenor part ventures high, >> and >> stays >> there for awhile, then publishers should be a little more >> cognizant in >> their >> layout in using the bass clef and ledger lines. They have >> ultimate control >> over that, and it's simply done (being a copyist and in-demand >> arranger for >> over 10 years). The fact is: I've taken a poll with all male >> vocalists and >> asked them what they would prefer to always see, and they prefer >> bass clef; >> they say that treble is confusing and it messes with their eye's >> ear. The >> same goes for adults. I think that where things are getting lost and >> mis-practiced are with publishers, which is why I don't go through >> publishers. Their editors wreak havoc on an original layout / >> work. It's >> a >> harsh truth, but it's the truth nonetheless. >> >> >> >> >> >> Patrick J. M. Sheehan >> Music Director, Instructor: Woodlawn Arts Academy >> >> P. S. Music >> >> <mailto:patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com> patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > _______________________________________________ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale The perfect drive......a diminishing sphere of white impaling the azure heavens in a graceful elliptic........height and distance vying for supremacy......compatriot's jowls lax, eyes huge, their raucous paeans thinly veiling jealousy......one stroke justifying a capricious investment in the titanium industry. Dean M. Estabrook http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/ _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
