Keep in mind that Firebug is used by both Windows ands Mac users, as
well as some other OSs. The system conventions and standard windows
are different. For example the position and appearances of close,
zoom, etc. And also - in my experience when I close the last window
for an app on Windows it the app usually goes away completely and
gives up its memory, etc. Not always, but usually. On the other
hand, on the Mac the usual (but maybe not universal) behavior is to
keep the app in memory after the last window closes, with an icon
remaining in the dock, flagged that is still active/present/whatever.
When an app is active on the Mac you pretty much universally have a
Quit option in the app menu (note this is somewhat a consequence of
the difference between menus attached to each window in Windows, and
the single menu bar at the top of the screen for the app that
currently has focus, so on the Mac there isn't a need for an app
window in order to have a way to completely quit an app or get back to
it).
I suspect those differences, and different peoples varying familiarity
with both may lead to some of the disconnects in these discussions.
What a Windows user expects to have happen when they close, minimize,
zoom, quit, etc., and the UI elements to do them, are somewhat
different from the Mac user's. Absent clearly understood meanings and
functions that cross the OSs there is going to be confusion. Back to
different users coming from different expectations, finding it
difficult to infer what Firebug is trying to do, what its model behind
the scenes is, and maybe some of the Firebug developers' difficulties
understanding what some people try to say.
I would like a couple of things. One is clear place to find "About
Firebug" and "Help". On Windows (XP anyway) I think users expect to
find both under the Help menu, and that is nearly always available in
the menu bar of each app. On the Mac, Help is in the Help menu, which
is just about always available from the menu bar when it is displayed
for the current app. And About is always under the app menu in the
menu bar when it is displayed for the app. Not sure about Windows,
but I think the consistency on the Mac flows from well established
conventions and Human Interface guidance from Apple.
I would like an easily found Preferences option for Firebug. Under
that you might be able to place many of the controls and options that
are desired. If it was easy to put controls there maybe it would be
easier to satisfy some of the complaints with options/settings. On
the Mac that is most often found in the app menu. In Windows the
convention for Preferences/Options/etc. is less well established but
usually findable.
Under Help, or somewhere easily found I would suggest starting with a
set of definitions for the terms used to describe the various states
and actions. For Firebug what do Active, On, Off, Minimized,
Detached, etc. mean, and relate them to what is going on. I find I
have a lot of trouble reading these discussions because I am not at
all sure everyone is using the same terms to mean the same things, the
customary terminology varies between OSs, and perhaps even within the
experiences on one OS, and so I don't nessesaraly know for sure what
is meant.
And that wish list leads back to where those should be so it is
constant with user experiences with other tools and their expectations
based on them, so they can find them. DO NOT expect people to
discover obscure unconventional interface functions without leading
them to them or having to tell them in forums like this. Example: the
Firebug bug in the status bar area is not too bad to get into Firebug,
but the idea that a right click on it is what leads you to important
settings which change your experience significantly is quite hidden
and easy to totally miss as far as I know. Likewise countless people
have missed the subtlety of the little down triangles in the menu bar
that make major changes. Recently some of that has been pointed out a
bit better, but it is still obscure and not consistent with the normal
GUIs in the major systems and apps.
Bob
On Jul 15, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Kara Rawson wrote:
>
> Steven Roussey wrote:
>> While the discussion of icons is going on, and seeing that icons are
>> getting nicer, I'd like to make a suggestion. I'll see about
>> designing
>> the icon in another post...
>>
>> Firebug itself can be: {on | off}
>>
>> In the case of {on},
>> Firebug UI can be: {shown | hidden}
>>
>> In the case of {shown},
>> Firebug UI location: {bottom of page | separate window}
>>
>> The current situation (fb 1.5a12):
>>
>>
>> In Firefox's status bar:
>> - the Firebug icon will show whether it is {on | off} by being
>> colored
>> or gray
>> - Clicking it will ensure Firebug is {on} and will toggle {shown |
>> hidden} if location is {bottom of page}
>> - Clicking it will ensure Firebug is {on} and will bring separate
>> window to front if location is {separate window}
>> - right clicking it brings up a context menu
>>
>> In Firebug, bottom of the page:
>> - the Firebug icon acts like a menu, even though it looks a button
>> and
>> is a group of other buttons. That menu is not the same as the context
>> menu above, and right clicking it does not bring up that other menu
>> either.
>> - it (and the other two) are menu/icons in the area of the tabs,
>> while
>> there is an area of icons on the right side as well
>>
>> In Firebug, separate window:
>> - the Firebug icon is gone, and instead there is a menu bar.
>> - unlike when on the bottom of the page, there is no button to from
>> separate window to bottom of page
>>
>>
>> Suggestions:
>>
>> 1. Move icons from left to right -- away from the tabs
>>
> maybe put the inspect, search pause to the left of the search box but
> still on the right side of the plugin
>> 2. Change the icon for the menu when firebug is on the bottom of the
>> page. Same icon doing different things. And give it a tooltip.
>>
> does it do this already
>> 3. Add the tool icons to the status bar
>>
> why add more clutter, (you are talking about FF status and not FB's)
>> 4. Move the search box into the tab area -- it took a while to figure
>> out that it worked in all the tabs
>>
> i like your mockuyp on this
>> 5. When the focus is in Firebug, control-F should move the focus to
>> the search box
>>
> ummm no, that is the shortcut for finding things on a page, maybe
> ctrl +
> shift / alt + f
>> 6. Add the inspector tool to the Firefox status bar
>>
> why must we clutter our system tray, personally speaking i dont like
> to
> have more then a few, its veyr very very distracting, dyslexic i am.
>> 7. Highlight the firebug icon in the status bar when Firebug is on
>> but
>> hidden and stuff is being written to the console. We could use the
>> saturated version used for the hover of the menu that uses the
>> Firebug
>> icon...
>>
>>
>>
>> mockup:
>> http://www.visigroups.com/_/Image/Cms/606/ad21c72ae0a16faf49375cfcb57f16ef/0/0
>>
>>>
>>
>>
> overall i do not like having the double redundant icons in your
> mockup,
> this is a plugin not a webpage, this plugin is designed for web dev's
> not idiot web browsing users.
>
> however i do strongly agree with you about moving all of the icons to
> the right side.
>
> neways thats some great feedback and mockup, great work...even if i
> dont
> agree with u ^_^
>
> kara
>
>
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