Thanks!  All the comments have definitely helped!  Now I have a much 
better Idea of how to set this up.

Thanks again,

John


> I would agree with the principle stated by both Laura and KK.  It is 
> actually a complex issue with DMZ placement, but what works for one 
> company doesn't necessarily work for another, especially considering 
most 
> organizations cannot afford two firewall appliances (or even if they 
> could might just believe one offers adequate assurance).
> 
> John S., given the original question, I would highly recommend at 
least 
> perusing the  O'Reilly  "Building Internet Firewalls" book[1] for 
your 
> own edification.  This book will give you a great overview of the 
> different firewall architectures, their principles, and the 
comparitive 
> advantages/disadvantages.  
> 
> In regards to your original post, I have three suggestions.
> 
> > >I have a few questions regarding setting up a DMZ.  Currently our
> > >public servers are behind our LAN port on our Firewall, with only 
the
> > >ports we need opened.  I would like to move these server to the DMZ
> > >port of our SonicWall DMZ firewall.  My question is...once I put
> > >something in the DMZ, do I need to give it a different IP address,
> > >meaning do I need to change it from an internal LAN IP to a 
external
> > >WAN IP?  Currently, my NAT router handle's that.  And if I do give 
it a
> > >WAN IP, does that mean I take it out of my NAT table?  I plan on 
using
> > >our HP Switch to create 2 VLAN's, one for our LAN and one for the 
DMZ
> > >Zone (currently our switch is not VLANed and it's used for our 
internal
> > >LAN).  Would this work, is this a good idea?  Can you give me any 
basic
> > >setup ideas/suggestions?
> > >
> > >Thanks!
> > >
> > >John
> 
> 
> Whether you change your bastion host (public server) to RFC1918 
addressing 
> or not and whether you remove it from the NAT table depends on one 
> question I would ask you.  You haven't explained any details about 
the NAT 
> router.  My question to you is does it support packet filtering?
> 
> Basically I can see two different approaches:
> 
> 1.  Screened subnet architecture
> If your NAT router does support packet filtering, you could leave it 
where 
> it is, and add a ACL/Packet filter that only allows access to the 
> bastion 
> host for ports that external users need to come in on.  In this case, 
you 
> could leave the bastion host with an RFC1918 (internal LAN) address, 
still 
> allowing the router to do NAT.  Then you could have the sonic 
firewall 
> protect the inside network.  This would have the effect of leveraging 
your 
> existing hardware to have the sonicwall dedicated to protecting the 
> internal network, and your NAT router protecting the bastion hosts by 
> allowing ONLY packets in on services absolutely necessary.
> 
> 2.  Merged Routers and Bastion Host Using General Purpose Hardware 
(page 
> 704, O'Reilly)
> I believe this would be the collapsed DMZ others are referrring to.
> With this configuration, remove the NAT table entry for the bastion 
host, 
> and either:
> A. re-IP to a public address allocated by your provider, having the 
> SonicWall do all packet filtering.
> OR
> B. Retain the RFC1918 address, and have the SonicWall do NAT (instead 
of 
> the NAT router), implementing all of the packet filtering that needs 
to be done.
> 
> Keep in mind that I am not familiar in any way with the Sonicwall 
product, 
> and make the assumption that it supports NAT.
> 
> With this configuration, the SonicWall is the workhorse here, 
protecting 
> both internal and DMZ networks.  The SonicWall has three interfaces: 
one 
> connected to the NAT router, one to the DMZ, and one to the internal 
> network.  If you did go with this configuration, I would also suggest 
> bypassing the switch on the DMZ network by connecting the SonicWall 
DMZ 
> port straight to the Bastion host via a crossover cable.  With this 
> approach, you eliminate any attacks on spoofing MAC addresses, 
> manipulating ARP tables, VLAN misconfigurations, etc., on the switch.
> 
> 3. Last, don't ever feel safe just because you have the firewall and 
think 
> you have the "right" configuration.  Host security (on the bastion 
host, 
> in your case) is just as important as a properly designed firewall 
> architecture, if not more so.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps, and good luck.
> -Jason
> 
> [1]  Building Internet Firewalls, Second Edition.  Zwicky, Elizabeth, 
et 
>      al.  O'Reilly and Associates, 2000: Sebastopol, CA.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, kk downing wrote:
> 
> > With the rise of firewall applicances and and
> > multi-nic cards many organizations run a collaped 
> > DMZ. Obviously the two firewall architecture is a good
> > idea but how many organizations actually pick two
> > different firewall vendors and apply this approach?
> > 
> > 
> > --- "Laura A. Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > I wouldn't oversimplify like that. Collapsed
> > > structure versus two firewalls
> > > is a very debatable topic. Why? Because if I hack
> > > your external firewall
> > > (the firewall itself, not a machine behind it) and
> > > your *separate* internal
> > > firewall is a *different* firewall, all I've done so
> > > far is compromise your
> > > DMZ. If you have a single firewall and there's an
> > > exploit out there for it
> > > that you've not yet patched against or a hack you
> > > don't know about, when I
> > > compromise your firewall I've now potentially
> > > compromised your entire
> > > network.
> > > 
> > > With that said, as I steadfastly maintain, a
> > > firewall is merely a speed bump
> > > against a skilled, dedicated intruder.
> > > 
> > > Laura
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Clifford Thurber"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Laura A. Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> > > "Bill Royds"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 4:29 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Basic DMZ Setup Questions...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > This was traditionaly the architecture before the
> > > DMZ became collapsed.
> > > >
> > > > At 12:13 PM 4/4/2002 -0500, Laura A. Robinson
> > > wrote:
> > > > >A "true" DMZ may have a firewall between the
> > > Internet and the DMZ, as
> > > well
> > > > >as between the DMZ and the intranet.
> > > > >
> > > > >Laura
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "Bill Royds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:11 PM
> > > > >Subject: RE: Basic DMZ Setup Questions...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >A true MZ is the net between the firewall and the
> > > Internet, not behind a
> > > > >firewall. If this is the case, then you have the
> > > choice of a public
> > > address
> > > > >or a simple 1-1 NAT (IP redirect) set up on your
> > > NAT enabled router. If
> > > your
> > > > >router can handle Port Address Translation, where
> > >  it sends the traffic
> > > from
> > > > >a single Internet address to separate servers
> > > depending on destination
> > > port,
> > > > >you can save Internet IP space by using private
> > > addresses. But your
> > > servers
> > > > >are not being protected by your firewall.
> > > > >
> > > > >If it is the more common server segment on a
> > > third NIC of the firewall,
> > > then
> > > > >it can use private address space, either IP
> > > redirect, PAT or full dynamic
> > > > >NAT. But it still would be a good idea to set up
> > > this server segment with
> > > a
> > > > >separate subnet address to ease routing and rule
> > > making on the firewall.
> > > > >
> > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
> > > Of John S. Strock
> > > > >Sent: Wed April 03 2002 18:26
> > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >Subject: Basic DMZ Setup Questions...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >I have a few questions regarding setting up a
> > > DMZ.  Currently our
> > > > >public servers are behind our LAN port on our
> > > Firewall, with only the
> > > > >ports we need opened.  I would like to move these
> > > server to the DMZ
> > > > >port of our SonicWall DMZ firewall.  My question
> > > is...once I put
> > > > >something in the DMZ, do I need to give it a
> > > different IP address,
> > > > >meaning do I need to change it from an internal
> > > LAN IP to a external
> > > > >WAN IP?  Currently, my NAT router handle's that. 
> > > And if I do give it a
> > > > >WAN IP, does that mean I take it out of my NAT
> > > table?  I plan on using
> > > > >our HP Switch to create 2 VLAN's, one for our LAN
> > > and one for the DMZ
> > > > >Zone (currently our switch is not VLANed and it's
> > > used for our internal
> > > > >LAN).  Would this work, is this a good idea?  Can
> > > you give me any basic
> > > > >setup ideas/suggestions?
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks!
> > > > >
> > > > >John
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >Firewalls mailing list
> > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >http://lists.gnac.net/mailman/listinfo/firewalls
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >Firewalls mailing list
> > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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