Dear Francesco and All,
Here is a rough version of Francesco's comment. I think it deserves further
critical comments, for example, on the way it relates information and cultural
value and the co-generation of entropy and negentropy, usually implicit but not
spelled out.
Thanks for your words. In the early eighties I introduced the concept of
information-process (the action of giving or taking form in time). In "The
Economics of Cultural Heritage" (1983), which became "Economics of an
“architectural-environmental heritage," in 1989 (Franco Angeli, Milan ), in
which, inter alia, I define a negentropic cultural value. I also applied to the
city, during a course on urban and regional economics at the Faculty of
Architecture of Palermo, in 1984-85, the compound word trans-form-in-action
(action of giving or taking form over time that can /not/ not trans-form) to
the city, But what matters most is to have conceived the activity of economic
production (in general) as a process of trans-information whose "input"
(matter, energy and information) and "output" (matter, energy and information)
are both negentropy and entropy. So my theory of value (which applies not only
to the economy in the strict sense) can be defined in simple-combination of
creative energy and information and, in a more complex triangle of the three
surpluses of negentropy: thermodynamic or natural, eco-biological and
cultural-historical. So, the marginal utility theory of value of neoclassical
economists is outdated and (should be) thrown to the winds. In fact, the "new
economy" is a psycho-physical, semiotic-hermeneutic and biological technology
sub-episteme. In summary, I really think a new science of economics or
economics of science has been invented. For Pedro’s re-discussion of
information encouraged me to send the above message (without wishing to take
any undue credit for myself).
Best,
Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: Francesco Rizzo
To: Joseph Brenner
Cc: Pedro C. Marijuan ; fis@listas.unizar.es
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City. Trans-in-form-action
Caro Joseph,
grazie per le Tue parole. All'inizio degli anni Ottanta ho introdotto il
concetto-processo di informazione (azione del dare o prendere forma nel tempo)
In "Economia dei beni culturali"(1983), divenuto "Economia del patrimonio
architettonico-ambientale" nel 1989 (FrancoAngeli, Milano), in cui fra l'altro
definisco i beni culturali neg-entropici. Inoltre ho impiegato la parola
composta tras-in-form-azione (azione del dare o prendere forma nel tempo che
non può non tras-formarsi) alla città durante lo svolgimento del corso di
economia urbana e regionale nella Facoltà di Architettura di Palermo, nell'A.a.
1984-85. Ma quel che conta di più è l'avere concepito l'attività di produzione
economica (in senso generale) come un processo di tras-informazione i cui
"input" (materia, energia e informazione) e "output" (materia, energia e
informazione) sono neg-entropia ed entropia. Quindi la mia teoria del valore
(che non vale solo per l'economia in senso stretto) può definirsi- in modo
semplice- combinazione creativa di energia e informazione e, in modo più
complesso, triangolo dei tre surplus o neg-entropie: termodinamici o naturali,
eco-biologici e storico-culturali. Sicché la teoria del valore-utilità
marginale degli economisti neoclassici è sorpassata e da buttare alle ortiche.
Difatti la "Nuova economia" è in-centrata sull'episteme
psico-fisica,semiotico-ermeneutica e biologico-tecnologica. Insomma, penso
davvero di avere inventato una nuova scienza dell'economia o economia della
scienza. Per questo appena Pedro ha ri-parlato di informazione sono stato
stimolato a mandare il messaggio precedente.
Ribadisco, però, che non intendo menare alcun vanto.
Cordiali saluti.
Francesco Rizzo.
2014-06-06 9:49 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>:
Dear Francesco,
Thank you for a most interesting overview of your work. What I would be
most interested in would be a summary of the real processes underlying
"trans-in-form-action" and its relation to information - and
"trans-information". The use of the prefix 'trans-' in transdisciplinarity is
intended (by Nicolescu) to refer to something that lies within, between and
beyond specific disciplines. Another non-trivial use of 'trans-' was made by
Pedro.
(Some 14 years ago, I defined 'trans-creation' as the creation of artistic
documents or objects with some social relevance, that is, to the common good.
It is important to understand, in this connection, how information carries such
relevance.)
If you prefer to answer in Italian rather than English, unless there is
someone else in the group with Italian-language skills, I would undertake to
make a rough translation (or edit a machine-translation).
Best regards,
Joseph
(Joseph E. Brenner, Ph.D.)
VP-Inter-and Transdisciplinarity, International Society for Information
Science)
----- Original Message -----
From: Francesco Rizzo
To: Pedro C. Marijuan
Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City
Caro Pedro e cari tutti,
mi permetto di segnalarVi che la mia "Nuova economia" è basata sul
processo di tras-in-form-azione. Si cfr. a tal proposito, fra i tanti altri:
-Rizzo F., ""Valore e valutazioni. La scienza dell'economia o l'economia
della scienza", FancoAngeli, Milano 1999;
-Rizzo F., "Nuova economia. Felicità del lavoro creativo e della
conservazione della natura. Infelicità della speculazione finanziaria", Aracne
editrice, Roma, 2013;
-Rizzo F., "Incontro d'amore tra il cuore della fede e l'intelligenza
della scienza. Un salto nel cielo", Aracne editrice, Roma 2014.
Ho dedicato mezzo secolo di ricerca per ri-comprendere e ri-significare
la scienza economica. Quello che scrivo non è una presunzione.
Auguri per un'intensa ripresa e grazie.
Francesco Rizzo.
2014-06-05 14:25 GMT+02:00 Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>:
Dear FISers,
Among the many interesting themes where the information science
perspective may provide useful orientations, cities are one of the most
singular. A recent work by Michel Batty on the New Science of Cities (2013,
MIT) makes a lot of connections with our oft discussed info topics. A
Communication Theory of Urban Growth was developed by Richard Meier (1962); a
fluxes perspective was already attempted by Patrick Geddes (1949). In essence I
have found that the idea of information flows and material flows as catching
and intertwining each other, with their highly different regimes, heterogeneity
and energy contents, appears as an important focus in order to better
understand the globalized city. Scaling is one of the essential concepts...
I am not aware that scaling has been applied to the informational
analysis itself (obviously it is the cornerstone of self-similarity). What I
mean is that a micro-level of communication analysis may be quite different
from the meso-level, and the from macro-level. Thinking in the human case
(biologically it could make sense too) the micro level is dominated by
syntaxis, by a Shannonian type of analysis on messages emitted from a sourced
to a receiver. The meso level contains meaning, value (fitness), purpose, and
in general it implies the communication associated to the behavioral episodes
and living rhythms of individuals. While in the macro level, many individuals'
actions, works, products, etc. are aggregated into fluxes or flows, basically
of two kinds those devoted to the material (self-production) and those carrying
the info stuff devoted to communication; then it invites analysis of network
science, operations research, economic efficiency, etc., and of course the
direct flow perspective as Bejan and Peder (2011) have attempted in one of the
most interesting theories on self-constructing flow systems. Depending on the
information perspective in which we observe human communication, we will need
one or another lens to better make sense of what is happening.
My impression is that a more mature info science could be quite helpful
in this new field of urban development science --most people nowadays are
living in cities. Top down planning will fail if it is does not match with the
bottom up processes, both in communication and self-production aspects. Keeping
an adequate social flow of information, a well-mixed regime of communication,
is the essence of democracy. The contemporary "epidemics of loneliness" for
instance may be due among other social and demographic causes to failures in
bureaucratic high level planning...
best ---Pedro
PS. After the nasty computer crash months ago, we should try to enliven
the list--shouldn't we?
--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
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