On 10/6/06, Philip Ganchev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The good news is that Gmail again works with SourceForge! > > On 8/31/06, Axel Liljencrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 8/31/06, Philip Ganchev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 8/30/06, Axel Liljencrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On 8/27/06, Martin Bähr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Aug 27, 2006 at 05:36:21PM +0200, Axel Liljencrantz wrote: > > > [rearranged] > > > > > > > Move left/right until we encounter a non-whitespace character. > > > > Move left/right until we encounter a non-alphanumeric character. > > > > If the character we stopped on is non-whitespace, move along one more > > > > character. > > > > > > > > I've played around with it and it seems to do what I want most of the > > > > time. The actual rule may be a bit complicated, but the behaviour > > > > seems to be what you would expect. > [...] > > The rule is complicated. My hope is that what the rule does is often > > what you want, and that you won't realise that the underlying rule is > > complicated because it's reslt is intuitive. Kind of like how > > universal variables work. > > Having used this for a whie, I can say it is unintuitive to me. > First, a boundary character, such as the slash between directory names > in a path, is deleted. I expect it to stay. I think this is how many > other programs work, for example Emacs, Vi and other editors, even (I > think) text areas in Microsoft Internet Explorer.
Fair enough. > > Second, I would argue it's more useful if it stays. I usually want to > delete the word up to the boundary char, but keep the boundary char. > Examples are: > /usr/share -> /usr/local/share > .fish_inputrc -> .fish_history > hello.zip -> hello.jar > apt-get -> apt-cache > > I can delete it more easily than typing it, especially since my > fingers are already positioned for deleting. It is true that > sometimes you can use competion to recreate the character, but not > always. Because you can't depend on it, you either habituate to > always re-type the character anyway, or have to stop thinking about > what you are doing, to decide whether you can use completion. > > Third, it feels inconsistent. It deletes the boundary char between > two alphanumeric words (slash between two alphanumeric directoy > names), but not if the slash is followed by anything other than an > alpha-numeric char. I realize it follows the rules you said, but in > practice it always surprises me. I expect the boundary characters to > be treated the same way in both cases. > > > On Aug 27, 2006, Axel Liljencranz wrote: > > A simpler rule, that will most of the time do what you propose would be > > to only lump together a series of _identical_ boundary token. E.g. ' > > ' is a single boundary, but ' ~. ./' is 6 boundaries. > > I find this a much more intuitive and useful behavior for "delete-word". > > The other one is "delete consecutive characters that belong to the > same set", where each character is in one of three sets: alphanumeric, > whitespace, or boundary. This is how Vi works. > > Emacs and Bash work somewhat opposite of Fish. All chars up to an > alphanumeric char, then up to a non-alphanumeric char, are deleted. > They do, but they don't allow you to delete one directory level in a path, for example, which I often find quite useful. And because I got into the hornets nest of adding this third level, we have a much harder time of defining a sane criteria. I am still hoping that we will get a rule that is more useful than the one in bash, but it is far harder than I initially thought. > > > > > Actually, I tried my version, and it didn't work. There where troubles > > > > with tokens consisting completely of separateors. So the new rule for > > > > move_word and kill_word is: > > > > > > Sorry, what were the troubles -- that you had to press Ctrl+W many > > > times to delete many consecuitve separators? With the new rule you > > > would still have to press Ctrl+W many times, only one time less than > > > with the simpler rule. What is the rationale for making the first > > > encountered separator more special than other separators? > > > > > > > The basic problem is that when a word ends with a a boundary > > character, then ^W will only delete the whitespce after the word and > > nothing of the word itself, which is hardly what the name implies, nor > > is it very useful. > [...] > > Still has the problem that hittin ^W on 'foo ' will only delete > > whitespace. No word is deleted by any reasonable definition. > > Again, I think it is useful because it is what is needed most of the > time, and is exactly what I expect. If you want to remove the whole > word, hit C-W again. That the "word" is not removed is a pedantic > point. I don't think that to remove "/bar" from "foo/bar" is to > remove a word, either. "bar" is the word, and somehow you have to > remove things that are not a word. Whether you remove them with the > word separately, you are never removing words. What is important is > to make the behavior predictable and convenient. Currently it is > neither. I find that very often I want to remove the word without the > delimiter. The behavior you proposed would be both, I think, for the > reasons I explained. > > This may sound like a trivial thing to fuss about, but I currently > feel quite unsettled deleting words. So I hope you will at least > consider it again. I have once again edited the relevant function, when moving/deleting to the left, the boundary character should never be deleted/moved past. But I am beginning to see a very clear trend that whenever you unbreak one aspect, another one breaks. The current implementation is doubtlessly not an exception. To save me some time, I have decided that I will not consider future suggestions for this function unless they contain a decent analysis of common usecases as well as a patch to the move_word function to implement the suggested behaviour. Sorry. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Fish-users mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users > -- Axel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? 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