This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gail,
You bring up some very good points and questions. Obviously there are many things about colic that we still don't understand. Maybe someday we will have it figured out. Until then a lot of what you hear and read is theory and therefore treatments will vary from vet to vet. I sure don't mind discussing this topic. It has always been an area of interest with me. At one time I did colic surgery, but I have left that practice and went out on my own. I don't have a surgery facility built yet. Maybe someday. > I understand that you are trying to keep > me from > imparting misinformation to the list Mostly I'm trying to keep you from beating yourself up. > an hour from the nearest large > animal vet > who treats cattle most of the time, and 3 1/2 hours (not the seven I > thought) from the closest surgery clinic (in Redding, according to > my home > vet). This brings up a good point. It may be a good idea when traveling with horses to include in your travel plans a phone number of a surgery facility near your destination. Universities are definitely not the only ones doing colic surgeries. I've seen some private practices better equipped than some universities. You can call the American Association of Equine Practitioners in Lexington, KY for this. I think there is even a special number 1-800-GETADVM. > I thought banamine and other drugs were used to mask symptoms so > things > would not get worse. Banamine has many benefits. It is a good pain reliever but also it is an anti-inflammatory and will also combat the toxins that build up in the blood during colic. I thought that, among the possibilities for > "things > getting worse" was the horse rolling from the pain, and causing a > twist that > was not there originally? This is a subject of debate. The old thought was that you've got to keep the horse walking otherwise they will twist. The new thought is that the gut is probably already twisted so let the horse roll, maybe it will untwist. I tell my clients to let the horse roll unless it is so violent that it is at risk of injuring itself. Remember how I said that on occasion I have been discussing with an owner about surgery or euthanasia and then the horse got better? Possibly the horse with its rolling self corrected. Now this would only happen with a mild displacement. If the gut has twisted 360 degrees, then I don't think all the rolling in the world is going to help. What about the possibility that this > was an > impaction further down (treatable by oil, or maybe early surgery), > that was > *later* complicated due to rolling or gas buildup? Could this ever > happen? The impactions that I have treated surgically are so full of manure that there really isn't room for it to be twisting around in there. And the displacements that I have treated all seem somewhat empty (with the exception of the backed up manure behind the twist). So, I understand your reasoning, but it hasn't been my experience. Now sometimes I feel that giving oil well help keep gas production down. Gas distention is a big cause of pain with colic and can cause the gut to rupture. I think that I have lucked out on some occasions when surgery wasn't an option by giving lots of oil thus allowing some of the manure and gas to pass by the obstructed area until it slipped back into place. I could have made the condition worse though by pumping extra volume into an already full gut. Sometimes you just got to take the chance though if all other options are gone. (I am assuming here that a twisted/displaced(?) large > bowel is > definitely inoperable. Right?) No, I have operated on many twists/displacements successfully. It just depends on the severity of the twist and how quick you get them to surgery. > I got this idea, in part, from the vet (and just about everyone > else) > telling me that rolling can cause a twist. So couldn't the twist > have come > later, maybe just a little before the time she started throwing > herself > around violently. Rolling (in my opinion) may cause a twist in some cases where there is an absence of manure in a section of gut. That's why it is best that horses not be fed in one or two meals a day. It's better if they have a little bit to nibble at all thru the day. I realize that this isn't always practical, but that's the old horse/owner tug of war. What's good for us isn't always good for the horse and vice versa. Think of the gut like a long stocking. With the stocking empty, you can twist it every which way and tie it in knots. Now take that stocking and fill it with stuffing of some sort. It then becomes rigid and is much harder to fold over and loop around. So possibly an empty segment, a little gas to make it lighter, and some rolling may cause a twist. Who knows? > Another thing I do not understand...if the original problem was the > twist > just below the stomach, how did she keep packing food in for the > period from > sometime around Saturday noon until Sunday at 6:00 PM. Horses have many, many feet of intestine. So she probably had plenty of room between her mouth and the twist to pack in more food. As the food built up, she would then get more painful. Also, there is plenty of room for manure to sit past the location of the twist. It is often the case for a horse with an obstruction to pass a few piles. These things can be very misleading. This is a very interesting topic. I would like to hear from other listers about their experiences and what their vets' philosophies are. Like I said, a lot of colic information is just theory. Maybe we can get something good to come out of this rotten situation. Steve White Waterloo, NE
