Peter, But wasn't Ken's plea for complex stochastic models?? The problem is that the physical system has emergent processes and is not either a linear, non-linear or stochastic projection of the past, either simple or complex. It's not a projection of the past at all. It's a divergence from and construction upon the past, by emergent systems never seen before. You can't directly model that. You can only study that as something that diverges from your models. It seems to me, *that's* what Rosen is talking about when naming divergent sequences as what prevents science from studying life.
Phil From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of peter Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 1:16 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] This Economy Does Not Compute Right on Ken Thats the major issue --- we inside of the industry understand that the non dynamic non world related models are SIMULATIONS but to most people these are wizard visions of actuality and bluntly our marketing to them fudges this whenever a contract or money comes up. For example: At a recent seminar for the city of santa fe economic vision each department ( Some 8 in all ) had created there own silo viewpoint on a pdf and associated power point with very little consideration of interaction.and absolutely no multi dimensional viewable interaction, forget about the real world it was not invited.. In my usual smooth understated way I pointed that the last three visions were now gathering dust on someones shelf as a result of the word pdf workflow used and unless they could bring this alive connect it to the real world in a constant way that adapted dynamically to reality it was DOA. Now what looks like to be occurring is a non dynamic political correct sim city YUCK but what they need is dynamic SysBIM on steroids but god love them I guess fiction is more comfortable and no one on our side of the table is telling them the REAL truth As a similar metaphor its worth noticing that the success of the abacus had nothing to do with technology or ease of use it was so that anyone could watch EXACTLY what the bean counters did, as no one trusted them. I submit we have a similar problem and need an equivalent example hence the thought on do no evil etc and for that we need to come out of our specialist academic ( It ain't my problem OH is that what you wanted ) silos ( : ( : pete Peter Baston IDEAS <http://www.ideapete.com/> www.ideapete.com Kenneth Lloyd wrote: Excellent article! As complexity wonks, most of us understand that static models are woefully incomplete, and that dynamical systems modeling is one of the precursors to understanding complexity. This implies the study of systems at some distance from equilibrium. Hopefully, we can encourage people to join us in the 21st century and adopt these methodologies. Just got a FRIAM post: "This economy does not compute." Perhaps a move from the deterministic to the stochastic is in order. Our economy computes, but in non-analytical ways. It's complex ... Doh! Ken -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Francisco Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:43 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] This Economy Does Not Compute from Rob Axtell: http://krasnow.blogspot.com/2008/09/goldilocks-on-wall-street. html#links On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:29 AM, glen e. p. ropella <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/opinion/01buchanan.html?_r=3 <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/opinion/01buchanan.html?_r=3&ref=opi> &ref=opi nion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-219-3846, http://tempusdictum.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
