So...  I don't know how interested this group is in this conversation in general, but I am and there has been enough back and forth that I think maybe it is worth continuing and elaborating.

Disclaimer:  This is really just a rambling rant, unevenly spiced with sincerity and sarcasm.  No harm is intended to anyone or anything, except maybe my own hypocricy.  I really am as confused on this subject as I sound!



Pamela's recent strong statements added poignancy to the discussion for me:
This entire thread is to say that the self-righteous way Californians force upon us precepts about eating locally (yes, you, Alice) is surely well meant, but a sacrifice they don't personally have to make.

and

Okay, I answered Nick privately with a non-PC answer, so I may as well 'fess up to the whole group. I am perfectly willing to pay whatever it costs to fly in sweet green produce from better climates. Sorry to be such a spoiled brat.

Does anyone have good ideas or models for the way our whole system has oscillated around transportation,  industrialized food production, consumerism, etc. ?   How do we get a grip on the false economies and arbitrary assumptions we make about our deeply ingrained sense of how all this works?

I am very much (in principle) in favor of localized production/consumption of just about everything.  I am very much (in practice) very much prone to ignore my principles and buy, consume, eat things from wherever with hardly any awareness or concern for how silly I would feel if I really knew what went into producing it and getting it to me.   For example, I might very well go buy a stem of "vine ripened tomatoes" (from a hydroponic hothouse half way across the continent) from the supermarket in late summer while my next door neighbor is having  a hard time getting rid of all the tomatoes they grow.

I also am a bit of a "spoiled brat" about such things.  I *like* being able to buy just about anything, anywhere, anytime regardless of what season it is, etc.   I *am* aware enough of what fresh fruits and vegetables are *supposed* to look and taste like to recognize the difference between produce picked unripe and packed/shipped/painted/waxed for appearance vs truly fresh.   About all this is good for is reminding me when I'm actually eating something *totally* out of season and *clearly* trucked from half a continent away, not just a few hundred miles.  I still eat citrus all winter long.  I still eat avocados when they are "good enough" in quality and not "totally outrageous" in price. 

What offends me (about myself) most is that it is not like I am not aware of these issues like I might have been decades ago.   It is not like I don't believe that global climate change is a problem and that it is specifically aggravated by things like our "transportation economy" and our "industrial agriculture" and lots else. 

Much of what we do, we do for variations on "because we can" and "false economies".    When the price of diesel spiked over $4/gallon this summer, we saw a "slow" response in reduced OTR trucking, but the Capital Investment in the Trucks and other infrastructure and the momentum of the industry kept the "sweet green produce" flowing from places like the lush irrigated (with water from the Colorado Plateau in many cases) to places like NYC, Boston, Chicago which admittedly could never produce any small fraction of the produce they consume (or waste in many cases).  By the time the price of produce could go up and the availability could go down, diesel was back down to $2.50 and even though this was a net increase, it felt like a relief (to those paying the price directly), but the rest of us really managed to hardly suffer from that.

And lets not forget how the major explosives plants built for WWII were converted directly to fertilizer production immediately after the war (there is a reason Tim McViegh was able to blow up a building with a truckload of fuel-oil and commercial fertilizer... try that with horse manure!).   We had an industry looking for a customer, and the customer was *us* in the form of higher volumes and higher quality agricultural products than ever!

And not only do we ship grapes from Chile and Lettuce from CA to NY, we also ship "coals to newcastle".  During Northern NM's Apple harvest, our own apples go begging while we ship them in from WA state in nitrogen packed, refrigerated trucks to major food chains.  Local supermarkets will not (or hardly) consider selling local produce, for many reasons, not related to the actual *value* of the produce.  It is for reasons of supply chain, automated inventory, consistency, etc.   And *we* collaborate by insisting (as I mentioned earlier with Hot House Tomatoes) on uniformity and predictability in our product over all else.    If we buy a bushel from Dixon we probably let 3/4 of it rot.

If you watch any industrial agriculture in action, you will see they are all about either reducing labor (mechanizing) or reducing labor costs (using very low-paid immigrant labor) or both.   They (still) treat their soil as a hydroponic medium, pouring chemical fertilizer in like the soil had none of it's own (oops, maybe it doesn't anymore) and herbicides and insecticides like we didn't know they were poisons (wait, it says so right on the container).   We all know that those poisons won't be in the food when we eat it (don't we?).  And  of course, we are sure the poisons will magically disappear into the environment (I mean magically transform themselves into innocuous substances) without causing us or anyone else any harm.

So, while the agri-industry is maximizing it's efficiency, there is also direct waste at the source.   Huge machines gobbling up entire rows of tomato plants, separating the stems and leaves from the fruit (while only barely ripening) and hauled to a sorting/cleaning factory where they will be packaged for delivery.   You can see the tomatoes falling off of the trucks, being smashed into the ground as if they are worthless (acceptable losses) ground soldiers.  In the factory, you see the survivors (99%) of the harvest being handled very carefully until they are discovered to be blemished in some way, these are culled immediately (they would never make it all the way to your refrigerator shelf unblemished if they already are showing signs of wear).   Occasionally you will see an entire boxcar or Reefer truckload of produce lost to spoilage (mechanical failure, delay, etc.)  Then once the carton of produce hits the Supermarket, the produce man culls as he fills his bins with perfect little tomatoes, again culling anything with a blemish.   He knows we will not buy a blemished tomato and that one blemished tomato makes the rest look less desirable.    And then I walk into the produce department, and being the conscientious shopper that I am, I am careful not to pick up the promising tomatoes and squeeze them for ripeness.  But some of the folks around me seem to need to do this.  I look carefully for thumbprints and nail-marks from previous patrons, and try to pick only those which have heretofore only been touched by the produce mans hands (harvesting and washing/sorting/packaging often being hands-free).  After I select my 5 or 6 still-not-ripe, but-at-least-red fruits, gently putting them in my basket, not being sure if I still have a few tomatoes at home or not, I check out.  With luck the checker and the bagger (when there is one) won't savage my little fruits any more and I will not cause them any more injury on the way home and into the basket where I let them (hopefully) continue to ripen.

 Half of the time, I get home to realize that I still had more from the last trip than I thought, or equally sad, I realize the ones I have left have started to soften, if not rot.  Since I have a new batch, I might discard the softening ones... conscientiously into the compost bin of course.   Or maybe they are not too soft, so I decide to make fresh spaghetti sauce with them.  Cutting them up, discarding the ugly butts and ugly stem-ends into the compost of course, I have plenty after all.   I add a medley of other fresh (last week, trucked in cool nitrogen all the way from CA or Mexico or ???) herbs and veggies into the sauce, discarding anything blemished or vaguely unsavory looking into my compost.   I serve it up for dinner and we all dig in with gusto, so proud and happy to be eating fresh, homecooked food.  Of course, since we no longer have our own garden (it is really just not worth it, too much trouble, insects, gophers, drought, etc.) we are not as hungry as we would be if we'd been working outside all day.  So we leave half of it as leftovers to eat another day.   We like leftovers.  Our refrigerator is filled with half-consumed, all-organic (or not), fresh-produce, home-cooked goodness.   We eat at least half of our leftovers.  The other half, we conscientiously put into our compost.   We are very good people.

The bottom line is that less than 1/2 of the produce on any industrial farm ever makes it to the table probably, much less eaten.   And with all my "concientious" behaviour, about all I succeed in doing is keeping the half I waste out of the landfill, or maybe reduce the produce department's waste (because I don't have  to squeeze 6 items before I find one I am willing to take home) by a fraction.

So... after all this ranting.  I agree with Pamela that it would be a huge sacrifice (all the way unto dying of scurvy) if everyone tried to "eat local" overnight.   Not only would we not get "fresh(ish) sweet greens" year round, we might not get them at all!  Especially if we live in an arid desert or a megalopolis.   

On the other hand, what if we *did* try to grow a few things ourselves (window/patio herb/veggie garden).  What if we did buy from our local farmers markets when they are available.  What if we did ask our local grocers to buy as local as possible, and reward them by buying our produce from them even when Wild Goats and Holy Food and Alfiealphas and Trader Joes and WalMartSupercenter can offer us huge piles of perfectly round, perfectly shaded, unblemished, bright green things that look exactly like they do on TV at half the price.   What if we went ahead and took the blemished tomato that someone else squeezed a little too much because it was just going into a spaghetti sauce anyway.   What if we went ahead and used the blemished parts in our sauce... and then, what if we invited friends over to help us eat the whole batch, or made sure we didn't let half of our leftovers go bad.   It won't save the planet.   But it might get us one step closer.  And we might appreciate our food more.   And we might not feel as entitled to the uber-perfection-and convenience-unto-absurdity that we have all been seduced into. 

I still like my grapefruit in mid-winter, but it really, really, really doesn't taste as good as the ones we picked off the trees in Phoenix when we went to visit our relatives on Christmas.  It is not just that theirs were fresh, but I hadn't seen one for months and here they were "growing on trees"!   We brought Pinon and Chile Ristras and Posole and Pinto's and canned Green Chile.   And *they* thought *that* was a treat.  We thought those were boring staples.

I wonder if I will get my full garden fired up again this year?  It is really just too much work.   And it is cheaper to buy from the store, even if I only pay myself immigrant wages for my labor.  And the results are always blemished.   Insect, bird and rodent damage.  Dirty.  Flat and discolored on one side if I forget to roll the melons.   And there is always too much... I can't give it away when it comes in well.   And the supermarket always has plenty.  And it is perfect.  And I don't have to take the blemished ones.   And if I don't like the quality at one supermarket, there are several more.  

I wonder if I should garden at all this year?   I wonder if I should bother with the local farmers markets?  With the small grocers with small produce departments.   I think maybe they will open a Wal-mart Supercenter nearby.  It is my responsibility to support the mega-commercial agri-industry.   What would I do if they go away?   I can't grow all my own food.  My local farmers can't grow enough for all of us.   It is probably un-american to be growing my own food, buying/eating. locally anyway.   What was I thinking?

A Reformed Locovore,
 - Steve



On Mar 28, 2009, at 7:42 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

A half-dozen rutabaga puns spring to mind, which I have thankfully suppressed.

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Nicholas Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote:

 
Pamela,
 
have never eaten a rutabaga. I have stood at the produce in Whole Foods and admired their fortitude, but i have actually never even knowingly MET a person who has consmued a rutabaga.
 
Are you prepared to introduce me to rutabaga's. A way of cooking them that makes them taste like pancakes with maple syrup, perhaps.
 
N
 
 
 
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu)
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela McCorduck
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Sent: 3/24/2009 8:15:15 AM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] home gardening
 
 
All good reasons to eat local. But I remind you all that in some parts of the country, "eating local" would reduce us to rutabagas for most months of the winter. I wouldn't like that, and neither would my body.
 
 
 
 
On Mar 23, 2009, at 9:50 PM, peggy miller wrote:
 
 
Bringing food local reduces transportation costs, cuts carbon emissions, and makes for a healthier diet. Glad to see the White House has decided to have a huge organic garden (see link below). Makes me realize it is time to get out there myself (at least pretty soon!) Peggy
 
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu)
 
 
 


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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org



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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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"Out of the crooked timber of humanity, nothing straight can ever be made."


Immanuel Kant



============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org




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