Jochen I am taking the liberty of moving our conversation into consciousness (See Jochen's note below). Perhaps the list can do a weekend seminar on it.
thanks for the reference. I have down loaded it, and now I must read it. I confess I have done that snotty thing of looking in the references before I read the article ... to discover that Baars does not reference either of the pinacles of thinking concerning scientific metaphors, George Lakoff or Mary Brenda Hesse. I fear he will not have found Holt, nor even that guy who imagines consciousness as the chart table on large tanker trying to come into San Diego Harbor. (and then tells us in detail about the polynesians who conceived of navigation on the open water as a project of moving stars and islands, out of sight over the horizon) (can anybody remind me of who this was?) There is an arrogance of working scientists who, when they reach a certain stature in their fields, feel that they have earned the right to do philosophy, even though they have read very little of it. Something that, for instance, they would never attempt with quantum mechanics or meteorology. So, I am braced to be pissed off by Baars. I am made VERY cranky by "cognitive scientists." Somebody will now box my ears, and rightly, too. russ? I suppose I should stipulate right away that I an not much of a philosopher myself, but a philosopher-groupie, and that I am, in the bargain, a terrible scholar. [sigh][sound of air leaking out of a good rant]. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > [Original Message] > From: Jochen Fromm <jfr...@t-online.de> > To: <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > Date: 10/24/2009 3:42:06 PM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] In the theater of consciousness > > Since the core of his theory is just a metaphor, > the easiest way to get access to it is maybe his paper > "Metaphors of consciousness and attention in the brain" > http://bci.ucsd.edu/~pineda/COGS273/Overheads/Baars.pdf > John Kennison said in June that one feature about > metaphors is that we must tolerate inconsistencies. > I am not sure how big the inconsistencies are here. > > However, it is surprising how much conversation > is going on privately between the members > of the list. Like unconscious thoughts.. > If you reply to one of those unconscious mails, > it is drawn in the spotlight of attention. > What appears on the list are the conscious > thoughts of the group, the FRIAM mind, while > the private messages are "unconscious" ones. > If the FRIAM list discusses itself, it would > be a form of self-awareness or consciousness > for the FRIAM mind. I wonder if Baars' theory > covers this case - actors on stage discussing > the theater? > > Bernard Baars has written two books about > it which I plan to study in the next weeks, > "In the Theater of Consciousness: The Workspace > of the Mind" (Oxford University Press, 1997) > and "A Cognitive Theory of Consciousness" > (Cambridge University Press, 1988). > > -J. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicholas Thompson" <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > To: "Jochen Fromm" <jfr...@t-online.de> > Cc: "Owen Densmore" <o...@backspaces.net> > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 1:45 AM > Subject: FW: Re: [FRIAM] In the theater of consciousness > > > > Owen has helpfully removed my excuse for not readiung Baars. As a man of > > mercy, and knowing of my limitations as a reader, could you help to a > > passage among the following that woudl get me quickly to the heart of his > > theory? > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, > > Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
