So, this Baars fellow who you're discussing, this is the Bernard J Baars whose home page at http://vesicle.nsi.edu/users/baars/ links to copies of all the books and papers under discussion?
-- rec -- On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Stephen Thompson <spth...@frontiernet.net>wrote: > Nick: > Without intending to "set you off" can you explain a bit about your > displeasure at > 'cognitive scientists'? Are they too loose in their work; an academic > mash-up with no > real direction; something else; or all of the above ? > Just interested to hear your story... > > Thanks, > Steph T (lurker) > > > > > Nicholas Thompson wrote: > >> Jochen >> >> I am taking the liberty of moving our conversation into consciousness (See >> Jochen's note below). Perhaps the list can do a weekend seminar on it. >> thanks for the reference. I have down loaded it, and now I must read it. >> >> I confess I have done that snotty thing of looking in the references >> before >> I read the article ... to discover that Baars does not reference either of >> the pinacles of thinking concerning scientific metaphors, George Lakoff or >> Mary Brenda Hesse. I fear he will not have found Holt, nor even that guy >> who imagines consciousness as the chart table on large tanker trying to >> come into San Diego Harbor. (and then tells us in detail about the >> polynesians who conceived of navigation on the open water as a project of >> moving stars and islands, out of sight over the horizon) (can anybody >> remind me of who this was?) >> >> There is an arrogance of working scientists who, when they reach a certain >> stature in their fields, feel that they have earned the right to do >> philosophy, even though they have read very little of it. Something that, >> for instance, they would never attempt with quantum mechanics or >> meteorology. So, I am braced to be pissed off by Baars. I am made VERY >> cranky by "cognitive scientists." >> >> Somebody will now box my ears, and rightly, too. russ? I suppose I >> should >> stipulate right away that I an not much of a philosopher myself, but a >> philosopher-groupie, and that I am, in the bargain, a terrible scholar. >> [sigh][sound of air leaking out of a good rant]. >> Nick >> >> >> >> >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University ( >> nthomp...@clarku.edu) >> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: Jochen Fromm <jfr...@t-online.de> >>> To: <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> >>> Date: 10/24/2009 3:42:06 PM >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] In the theater of consciousness >>> >>> Since the core of his theory is just a metaphor, the easiest way to get >>> access to it is maybe his paper >>> "Metaphors of consciousness and attention in the brain" >>> http://bci.ucsd.edu/~pineda/COGS273/Overheads/Baars.pdf >>> John Kennison said in June that one feature about metaphors is that we >>> must tolerate inconsistencies. I am not sure how big the inconsistencies are >>> here. >>> >>> However, it is surprising how much conversation >>> is going on privately between the members >>> of the list. Like unconscious thoughts.. >>> If you reply to one of those unconscious mails, >>> it is drawn in the spotlight of attention. >>> What appears on the list are the conscious thoughts of the group, the >>> FRIAM mind, while >>> the private messages are "unconscious" ones. >>> If the FRIAM list discusses itself, it would be a form of self-awareness >>> or consciousness for the FRIAM mind. I wonder if Baars' theory covers this >>> case - actors on stage discussing the theater? >>> >>> Bernard Baars has written two books about it which I plan to study in the >>> next weeks, >>> "In the Theater of Consciousness: The Workspace of the Mind" (Oxford >>> University Press, 1997) >>> and "A Cognitive Theory of Consciousness" (Cambridge University Press, >>> 1988). >>> -J. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thompson" < >>> nickthomp...@earthlink.net> >>> To: "Jochen Fromm" <jfr...@t-online.de> >>> Cc: "Owen Densmore" <o...@backspaces.net> >>> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 1:45 AM >>> Subject: FW: Re: [FRIAM] In the theater of consciousness >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Owen has helpfully removed my excuse for not readiung Baars. As a man >>>> >>>> >>> of >> >> >>> mercy, and knowing of my limitations as a reader, could you help to a >>>> passage among the following that woudl get me quickly to the heart of >>>> >>>> >>> his >> >> >>> theory? >>>> Thanks so much, >>>> Nick >>>> Nicholas S. Thompson >>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University ( >>>> nthomp...@clarku.edu) >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> >> > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
