On 10/5/12, Joseph Spinden <j...@qri.us> wrote: > I read the books listed in the reverse of the order in which I listed > them. Perhaps because of that, I think the order of relevance is also > increasing. > > In particular, the authors of IEWTIL (rhymes with "futile") explain why > they believe a third party would not improve the situation at all: If > anything, the opposite, in part because a third party would most likely > take votes from the Democrats. > > The constitution was designed to prevent a majority from riding > roughshod over a significant minority. The Republicans have realized > that the rules enable them to stop (almost) all movement. The parties > are acting in Parliamentary fashion (voting in lockstep), when the > Constitution was designed without any consideration of that > possibility. Indeed, when the Constitution was formed, the idea of > political parties would have been appalling to the founding fathers (and > would perhaps have been considered unpatriotic). (After all, they had > shortly before united to fight a war to throw off the British yoke.) > > For those interested in voting systems, towards the end of the book the > authors suggest alternate voting regimes. There are several interesting > suggestions for improving the present situation. > > For myself, I am coming to believe the only hope is for the Democrats to > retake control of both houses and the presidency, so as to enable them > to push through voting reform. Although, in fairness, it is not clear > that they would do that it they did gain control. But I do not see any > other way to implement change to the current situation. > > Joe > > > > > On 10/4/12 4:39 PM, Steve Smith wrote: >> Joe - >>> All very interesting, but I would suggest reading the books I >>> recommended a few posts back to understand the issues and some of the >>> (possibly feasible) solutions. >>> >> I appreciated your suggestions during a previous thread on Politics: >> >> / >> Democracy Lost, by Lawrence Lessig, Harvard Law professor - the >> corrupting influence of money on Washington // >> // >> //The Price of Inequality, by Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel Laureate in >> Economics - the increasing inequality in the US and its impact, as >> well as various responses to conservative economic orthodoxies // >> // >> //It's Even Worse Than It Looks, by Thomas E. Mann (Brookings >> Institution) and Norman J. Ornstein (American Enterprise >> Institute) - why congress is almost completely ineffectual and >> what might be done about it. / >> >> I am, in fact familiar with some of these writers works and ideas and >> generally agree with them and think their ideas are important. >> >> I'm focusing on raising awareness for the need to break the bipartisan >> stranglehold on elections (and public debate) right now simply because >> the opportunity is here right now... our nose is being rubbed in how >> lame the process and structure of Presidential Campaigns, Debates, >> Elections have become. >> >> Lessig addresses this more than the other two I think. >> >> I definitely don't think that it is nearly enough to introduce a third >> (or several more) parties. But it might be necessary? >> >> - Steve >> >> >>> On 10/4/12 2:19 PM, Steve Smith wrote: >>>> Doug - >>>>> I'm voting for Gary as my mechanism for voting against Romney, and >>>>> lackluster Obama. >>>> I don't know how accurate/useful/neutral this particular map is: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://freedomslighthouse.net/2012-presidential-election-electoral-vote-map/ >>>> >>>> But it suggests to me that many who are voting for Obama to vote >>>> *against* Romney/'Pubs/etc. can afford to risk "wasting" their vote >>>> by voting *for* any third party. And alternatively, those who >>>> might actually *want* Romney might accept that he's not happening >>>> this time around and vote *for* the choice of a third party. My >>>> personal preference *is* Gary Johnson despite my general mistrust of >>>> self-declared Liberatarians. I think he could do a better job >>>> handling the *important* issues for *both* parties than the >>>> candidates fielded. >>>> >>>> I'm very conflicted about Obama's performance... I understand the >>>> general malaise represented by your desription as "lackluster"... >>>> but I'm also willing to see him in for 4 more years. It looks >>>> pretty likely he will get that chance. >>>> >>>> Meanwhile I want to vote *for* third party representation and >>>> alternatives to Red/Blue. This looks like the chance. >>>> >>>> For those who are interested, BTW, https://voterview.state.nm.us/ >>>> will let you look up your registration status. It seems a little >>>> too easy to look up (name, birthdate?) but I guess this *is* public >>>> information?! >>>> >>>> The psuedo-debates on Democracy Now with the Green and the Justice >>>> party gave me hope... neither of the candidates came off as >>>> whackadoodles... which I'm not sure I can say for Romney (though the >>>> constrained/scripted debate format helps hide that side of him). >>>> >>>> - Steve >>>>> --Doug >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com >>>>> <mailto:sasm...@swcp.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I've been out of the mix for a while, so I missed this: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/JohnsonL >>>>> >>>>> So Gary is not laying down, just being (mostly) ignored. He's >>>>> made the ballot in all 50 states apparently... >>>>> >>>>> I'm hoping that in every non-battleground state, folks will not >>>>> be afraid to vote for their third-party candidate of choice. >>>>> Even Mickey Mouse, Alfred E. Neumann or your favorite pet. >>>>> >>>>> In battleground states, it is a harder question... the >>>>> arguments against "splitting the vote" are real, which demands >>>>> a change in the election laws to break the bipartisan deadlock. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> As many of you may know, I'm a big proponent of breaking the >>>>>> polarization of our two-party system. Here is Democracy >>>>>> Now's attempt to subvert the lock-out created by the two major >>>>>> parties and maintained by myriad interests: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/4/expanding_the_debate_exclusive_third_party >>>>>> >>>>>> How many of us even knew there WAS a Green and a Justice Party >>>>>> candidate? I assume some have not even heard of Libertarian >>>>>> candidate Gary Johnson... if he wasn't an NM homeboy, *I* >>>>>> might not have known about him. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is a short piece on the "conspiracy" behind this lockout... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/3/ahead_of_first_obama_romney_debate >>>>>> >>>>>> I tend to trust DN's accuracy in reporting, despite their >>>>>> clear bias. The facts laid out here are pretty damning. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm personally sorry that Gary Johnson wasn't available for >>>>>> this, I would like to believe it is truly logistics, not lack >>>>>> of interest on his part for not being there for this. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ============================================================ >>>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>>>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps athttp://www.friam.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ============================================================ >>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Doug Roberts >>>>> drobe...@rti.org <mailto:drobe...@rti.org> >>>>> d...@parrot-farm.net <mailto:d...@parrot-farm.net> >>>>> http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins >>>>> >>>>> 505-455-7333 - Office >>>>> 505-670-8195 - Cell >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ============================================================ >>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps athttp://www.friam.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ============================================================ >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps athttp://www.friam.org >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> "Sunlight is the best disinfectant." >>> >>> -- Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1913. >>> >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps athttp://www.friam.org >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > -- > > "Sunlight is the best disinfectant." > > -- Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1913. > >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
