I agree that we shouldn't have to feign interest in others'
interests. I'm not ready to pretend to like country music, go to
church, praise military adventures that I don't agree with, tell
gays they are going to hell and that god will heal them. At the
same time, I don't see how it is productive to make fun of
peoples' faith and cultural tastes, although I've been plenty
guilty of that myself, feeding my own ego. Liberals can be just
as intolerant as conservatives, and we will only make progress
when we start to respect other peoples' views. Sometimes that
just means sitting quietly and not responding.
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Marcus Daniels
<mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
Well, I find this article depressing but plausible.
Specifically,
Andrés Miguel Rondón writes:
“But it took opposition leaders 10 years to figure out that
they needed to actually go to the slums and the countryside
<https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2015/11/04/selfie/>. Not
for a speech or a rally, but for a game of dominoes or to
dance salsa — to show they were Venezuelans, too, that they
weren’t just dour scolds and could hit a baseball, could tell
a joke that landed. That they could break the tribal divide,
come down off the billboards and show that they were real.
This is not populism by other means. It is the only way of
establishing your standing. It’s deciding not to live in an
echo chamber. To press pause on the siren song of polarization.”
Figuratively, I don’t want to play dominoes, dance salsa, or
play baseball. I have different interests. I shouldn’t
have to pretend. They won’t pretend to me, that’s for sure.
This is not about polarization; this is about not wanting to
get pulled into that attractor. We have different lives.
That should be fine. This is the United States and
individualism is kind of a big thing here.
Now what politicians and opposition leaders do to manage this
problem is a different matter. That is about appearances not
reality.
Marcus
*From: *Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on behalf of "Robert J.
Cordingley" <rob...@cirrillian.com
<mailto:rob...@cirrillian.com>>
*Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
*Date: *Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 11:34 AM
*To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
*Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
The Washington Post has an interesting essay from a
Venezuelan on what to do and mostly what not to do.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did>
Robert C
On 1/28/17 11:21 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
Ok Steve,
The only reason to accept responsibility is to Take Charge.
I have been able to think of only one concrete thing that
I can do with my limited set of skills: Write Apple and
tell them to stop calling new products “I-this” and
“I-that.” When are they going to release the WE-phone.
You must have something in your tool kit more effective
than that!
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Steven
A Smith
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:38 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
What can WE hobbits do?
Scratch our hairy knuckles and indulge in second dinnerses?
Fun aside, I DO appreciate your sentiment here and agree
that the Narcissist in Chief is at least partly a
(focused) reflection of our own worst qualities, and
*perhaps* if we tend our own garden even a little, it
will help with the greater picture.
- Candide
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of
*Jochen Fromm
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:39 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com>;
Friam <Friam@redfish.com> <mailto:Friam@redfish.com>
*Cc:* penny thompson <penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>
<mailto:penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>; 'Bruce Simon'
<bjs...@yahoo.com> <mailto:bjs...@yahoo.com>; 'Dix
McComas' <dixmccom...@gmail.com>
<mailto:dixmccom...@gmail.com>; 'Grant Franks'
<grantfra...@earthlink.net>
<mailto:grantfra...@earthlink.net>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Yes, agree. Trump’s point of view is “Whatever I can
win with is true.” And if he wins with what we call
“a lie”, it is true for him. Exactly.
If you ask how we can counter and resist him, then I
would say peaceful protests are the right way. The
women's march was impressive, and the rebellion of
the social media managers from the national parks is
really refreshing. Who would have thought that the
national parks would strike back? Like Treebeard who
becomes alive.
In JK Rowling's novels it is the little creatures
like the house elves that beat the evil in the end.
In Tolkien's Lord of the Rings it is the Hobbits that
beat the evil enemy. I think in this case people like
Ken Bone are the Hobbits of the 21st century. The
modern Hobbits are adverage midwestern guys who
support Mr. T-Rump and his "party" on Twitter and
hope to get a bit rich and famous along the way.
People like Ken Bone are like Frodo the Hobbit, Mr.
T-Rump is Sauron and Jack Dorsey is the ringwraith.
Will Ken Bone throw the ring into Mt. Doom, i.e. will
he stop following Trump on Twitter and/or quit
Twitter completely? If we all stop following and
listening him he loses his power. This includes the
senior Republican politicians who do not speak up
against him because they hope for a job in his
administration.
Cheers,
Jochen
Sent from my Tricorder
-------- Original message --------
From: Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net
<mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net>>
Date: 1/28/17 01:57 (GMT+01:00)
To: Friam <Friam@redfish.com <mailto:Friam@redfish.com>>
Cc: penny thompson <penny.thomp...@earthlink.net
<mailto:penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>>, 'Bruce Simon'
<bjs...@yahoo.com <mailto:bjs...@yahoo.com>>, 'Dix
McComas' <dixmccom...@gmail.com
<mailto:dixmccom...@gmail.com>>, 'Grant Franks'
<grantfra...@earthlink.net
<mailto:grantfra...@earthlink.net>>
Subject: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Hi everybody,
I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we
seem to keep coming back to this topic, even when we
are talking about globalism.
So. Let me just share one thought. I have said a
hundred times that I think the great achievement of
the Right in my life time has been to problematize
(Ugh!) the Deweyan consensus of the 1950’s One of
the elements of that consensus was that there is a
truth of most matters and if we gather inclusively,
talk calmly, reason closely, study carefully,
investigate rigorously, we will, together , come to
it. What was, at the time of my coming of age, the
shared foundation of argument, became over last 50
years, /a position in the argument. /The alternative
to this Deweyan position seems to be something like,
“/There is no truth of the matter; there is only the
exercise of power. He who wins the argument, by
whatever means, wins the truth. Truth is not
something that is arrived at; it is won.”/
So. My sense of trump is that in fact, he is not
lying. On the contrary, he does not share the view
of discourse that makes lying a possibility. From
Trump’s point of view, “Whatever I can win with is
true.” Hence, if he wins with what we call “a lie”,
it is true.
I feel we are straying along the edge of some
*Nietzschean *chasm here. Unfortunately I haven’t
read any Nietzsche . A brief rummage in Wikipedia,
led me to The Parable of the Madman
<http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/nietzsche-madman.asp>.
And THAT led me to wonder if the TV Series, Madmen
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men>, about
marketing execs in the 60’s, was written with
Nietzsche in mind. In any case, if there is ever a
domain in which the truth is that which wins, it
would be marketing.
So, if we are going to counter Trump, it cannot be by
demonstrating that he lies. It has to be by
demonstrating that liars don’t win.
Heavy lift.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
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