That’s all I am asking.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven
A Smith
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:50 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Nick -
I know I don't always seem to take your questions seriously, but I
generally do.
I DO think the computer industry HAS effectively contributed to a
certain kind of isolation. On the other hand, here we are, most of us
able to participate in a complex discussion, halfway around the world
from one another (or not), many of us unable/unwilling to actually
*attend* the Mother Church as it were (FriAM coffee klatch) because of
computer technology. But again on the first hand, we sit around in
coffee shops ignoring one another while chatting with friends or
colleagues 7 time zones away?!
I believe that every form of technological "leverage" follows the
metaphor at least far enough to include the "loss of sensitivity" on
the strong-end of the lever. Sure, with the right lever, you can
heave a 1 ton boulder, but can you gently tweak the last 12 ounces of
force to *gently* move it off equilibrium? So I'm not sure HOW to
maintain sensitivity in the context of such high leverage. The age of
Transportation, Communications, etc. Brought huge societal problems
which have either leveled out, or sadly, more likely, normalized.
As for the barfight, I'll let you know... and just fair warning, if
you take wagers, put your money on *the other guy*, I might be
scrappy, but about all I have going for me any more is mass, the
ability to take a beating, and a willingness to gouge eyes when required.
- Steve
On 1/28/17 2:31 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
Steve –
Is there any way in which the computer industry has contributed to
the narcissistic pandemic that is sweeping the world. Is there
anything that participants in the computer industry could do tip
the world back toward a fact-based attractor?
If the answer to that question is no, then I suppose that starting
that barfight might be your highest and best use. Let me know
which bar you are going to, so I can come and watch.
But I think the question is yes.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of
*Steven A Smith
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:15 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Toolkit? This rusty old box filled with rusty things that once
resembled sharp tools and useful fasteners?
I was thinking that if we *all* burned one gallon of petrol *less*
a month (and everyone "like us") the demand would drop
commensurately and the cost/value proposition for the pipelines we
all love to hate would (eventually) drop below a certain threshold.
Similarly, if we *all* made it a point to have one *more*
thoughtful conversation (not just a rant) with those not already
in the choir, we might reverse the tide of *ugly* populism and
replace it with something more human (maybe still a form of
populism, but not nationalistic/xenophobic/misogynistic?).
If we *all* quit worrying about how the Trump Ascension was going
to hurt *our* personal context and recognized how it was going to
hurt (or in some twisted or strange way help) the larger context
and then only consider how our personal context would be effected
in turn by the larger context (is a happier, healthier, more
informed society good or bad for you and your family? vs can I
pay lower taxes, get more government services and be afforded less
expensive access to other resources nominally part of the commons?)
et cetera, ad nauseum
I know I'm preaching (somewhat) to the choir here, time to take my
own advice and go start a barfight with a Trumpian or something,
- Steve
Ok Steve,
The only reason to accept responsibility is to Take Charge.
I have been able to think of only one concrete thing that I
can do with my limited set of skills: Write Apple and tell
them to stop calling new products “I-this” and “I-that.” When
are they going to release the WE-phone.
You must have something in your tool kit more effective than that!
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of
*Steven A Smith
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:38 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
What can WE hobbits do?
Scratch our hairy knuckles and indulge in second dinnerses?
Fun aside, I DO appreciate your sentiment here and agree that
the Narcissist in Chief is at least partly a (focused)
reflection of our own worst qualities, and *perhaps* if we
tend our own garden even a little, it will help with the
greater picture.
- Candide
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf
Of *Jochen Fromm
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:39 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com>; Friam
<Friam@redfish.com> <mailto:Friam@redfish.com>
*Cc:* penny thompson <penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>
<mailto:penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>; 'Bruce Simon'
<bjs...@yahoo.com> <mailto:bjs...@yahoo.com>; 'Dix
McComas' <dixmccom...@gmail.com>
<mailto:dixmccom...@gmail.com>; 'Grant Franks'
<grantfra...@earthlink.net> <mailto:grantfra...@earthlink.net>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Yes, agree. Trump’s point of view is “Whatever I can win
with is true.” And if he wins with what we call “a lie”,
it is true for him. Exactly.
If you ask how we can counter and resist him, then I would
say peaceful protests are the right way. The women's march
was impressive, and the rebellion of the social media
managers from the national parks is really refreshing. Who
would have thought that the national parks would strike
back? Like Treebeard who becomes alive.
In JK Rowling's novels it is the little creatures like the
house elves that beat the evil in the end. In Tolkien's
Lord of the Rings it is the Hobbits that beat the evil
enemy. I think in this case people like Ken Bone are the
Hobbits of the 21st century. The modern Hobbits are
adverage midwestern guys who support Mr. T-Rump and his
"party" on Twitter and hope to get a bit rich and famous
along the way.
People like Ken Bone are like Frodo the Hobbit, Mr. T-Rump
is Sauron and Jack Dorsey is the ringwraith. Will Ken Bone
throw the ring into Mt. Doom, i.e. will he stop following
Trump on Twitter and/or quit Twitter completely? If we all
stop following and listening him he loses his power. This
includes the senior Republican politicians who do not
speak up against him because they hope for a job in his
administration.
Cheers,
Jochen
Sent from my Tricorder
-------- Original message --------
From: Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net
<mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net>>
Date: 1/28/17 01:57 (GMT+01:00)
To: Friam <Friam@redfish.com <mailto:Friam@redfish.com>>
Cc: penny thompson <penny.thomp...@earthlink.net
<mailto:penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>>, 'Bruce Simon'
<bjs...@yahoo.com <mailto:bjs...@yahoo.com>>, 'Dix
McComas' <dixmccom...@gmail.com
<mailto:dixmccom...@gmail.com>>, 'Grant Franks'
<grantfra...@earthlink.net
<mailto:grantfra...@earthlink.net>>
Subject: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Hi everybody,
I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we seem to
keep coming back to this topic, even when we are talking
about globalism.
So. Let me just share one thought. I have said a hundred
times that I think the great achievement of the Right in
my life time has been to problematize (Ugh!) the Deweyan
consensus of the 1950’s One of the elements of that
consensus was that there is a truth of most matters and if
we gather inclusively, talk calmly, reason closely, study
carefully, investigate rigorously, we will, together ,
come to it. What was, at the time of my coming of age,
the shared foundation of argument, became over last 50
years, /a position in the argument. /The alternative to
this Deweyan position seems to be something like, “/There
is no truth of the matter; there is only the exercise of
power. He who wins the argument, by whatever means, wins
the truth. Truth is not something that is arrived at; it
is won.”/
So. My sense of trump is that in fact, he is not lying. On
the contrary, he does not share the view of discourse that
makes lying a possibility. From Trump’s point of view,
“Whatever I can win with is true.” Hence, if he wins with
what we call “a lie”, it is true.
I feel we are straying along the edge of some *Nietzschean
*chasm here. Unfortunately I haven’t read any Nietzsche
. A brief rummage in Wikipedia, led me to The Parable of
the Madman
<http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/nietzsche-madman.asp>.
And THAT led me to wonder if the TV Series, Madmen
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men>, about marketing
execs in the 60’s, was written with Nietzsche in mind. In
any case, if there is ever a domain in which the truth is
that which wins, it would be marketing.
So, if we are going to counter Trump, it cannot be by
demonstrating that he lies. It has to be by demonstrating
that liars don’t win.
Heavy lift.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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