Nick -
I know I don't always seem to take your questions seriously, but I
generally do.
I DO think the computer industry HAS effectively contributed to a
certain kind of isolation. On the other hand, here we are, most of us
able to participate in a complex discussion, halfway around the world
from one another (or not), many of us unable/unwilling to actually
*attend* the Mother Church as it were (FriAM coffee klatch) because of
computer technology. But again on the first hand, we sit around in
coffee shops ignoring one another while chatting with friends or
colleagues 7 time zones away?!
I believe that every form of technological "leverage" follows the
metaphor at least far enough to include the "loss of sensitivity" on the
strong-end of the lever. Sure, with the right lever, you can heave a 1
ton boulder, but can you gently tweak the last 12 ounces of force to
*gently* move it off equilibrium? So I'm not sure HOW to maintain
sensitivity in the context of such high leverage. The age of
Transportation, Communications, etc. Brought huge societal problems
which have either leveled out, or sadly, more likely, normalized.
As for the barfight, I'll let you know... and just fair warning, if you
take wagers, put your money on *the other guy*, I might be scrappy, but
about all I have going for me any more is mass, the ability to take a
beating, and a willingness to gouge eyes when required.
- Steve
On 1/28/17 2:31 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
Steve –
Is there any way in which the computer industry has contributed to the
narcissistic pandemic that is sweeping the world. Is there anything
that participants in the computer industry could do tip the world back
toward a fact-based attractor?
If the answer to that question is no, then I suppose that starting
that barfight might be your highest and best use. Let me know which
bar you are going to, so I can come and watch.
But I think the question is yes.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven
A Smith
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:15 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Toolkit? This rusty old box filled with rusty things that once
resembled sharp tools and useful fasteners?
I was thinking that if we *all* burned one gallon of petrol *less* a
month (and everyone "like us") the demand would drop commensurately
and the cost/value proposition for the pipelines we all love to hate
would (eventually) drop below a certain threshold.
Similarly, if we *all* made it a point to have one *more* thoughtful
conversation (not just a rant) with those not already in the choir,
we might reverse the tide of *ugly* populism and replace it with
something more human (maybe still a form of populism, but not
nationalistic/xenophobic/misogynistic?).
If we *all* quit worrying about how the Trump Ascension was going to
hurt *our* personal context and recognized how it was going to hurt
(or in some twisted or strange way help) the larger context and then
only consider how our personal context would be effected in turn by
the larger context (is a happier, healthier, more informed society
good or bad for you and your family? vs can I pay lower taxes, get
more government services and be afforded less expensive access to
other resources nominally part of the commons?)
et cetera, ad nauseum
I know I'm preaching (somewhat) to the choir here, time to take my own
advice and go start a barfight with a Trumpian or something,
- Steve
Ok Steve,
The only reason to accept responsibility is to Take Charge.
I have been able to think of only one concrete thing that I can do
with my limited set of skills: Write Apple and tell them to stop
calling new products “I-this” and “I-that.” When are they going
to release the WE-phone.
You must have something in your tool kit more effective than that!
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of
*Steven A Smith
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:38 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
What can WE hobbits do?
Scratch our hairy knuckles and indulge in second dinnerses?
Fun aside, I DO appreciate your sentiment here and agree that the
Narcissist in Chief is at least partly a (focused) reflection of
our own worst qualities, and *perhaps* if we tend our own garden
even a little, it will help with the greater picture.
- Candide
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of
*Jochen Fromm
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:39 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com> <mailto:friam@redfish.com>; Friam
<Friam@redfish.com> <mailto:Friam@redfish.com>
*Cc:* penny thompson <penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>
<mailto:penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>; 'Bruce Simon'
<bjs...@yahoo.com> <mailto:bjs...@yahoo.com>; 'Dix McComas'
<dixmccom...@gmail.com> <mailto:dixmccom...@gmail.com>; 'Grant
Franks' <grantfra...@earthlink.net>
<mailto:grantfra...@earthlink.net>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Yes, agree. Trump’s point of view is “Whatever I can win with
is true.” And if he wins with what we call “a lie”, it is
true for him. Exactly.
If you ask how we can counter and resist him, then I would say
peaceful protests are the right way. The women's march was
impressive, and the rebellion of the social media managers
from the national parks is really refreshing. Who would have
thought that the national parks would strike back? Like
Treebeard who becomes alive.
In JK Rowling's novels it is the little creatures like the
house elves that beat the evil in the end. In Tolkien's Lord
of the Rings it is the Hobbits that beat the evil enemy. I
think in this case people like Ken Bone are the Hobbits of the
21st century. The modern Hobbits are adverage midwestern guys
who support Mr. T-Rump and his "party" on Twitter and hope to
get a bit rich and famous along the way.
People like Ken Bone are like Frodo the Hobbit, Mr. T-Rump is
Sauron and Jack Dorsey is the ringwraith. Will Ken Bone throw
the ring into Mt. Doom, i.e. will he stop following Trump on
Twitter and/or quit Twitter completely? If we all stop
following and listening him he loses his power. This includes
the senior Republican politicians who do not speak up against
him because they hope for a job in his administration.
Cheers,
Jochen
Sent from my Tricorder
-------- Original message --------
From: Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net
<mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net>>
Date: 1/28/17 01:57 (GMT+01:00)
To: Friam <Friam@redfish.com <mailto:Friam@redfish.com>>
Cc: penny thompson <penny.thomp...@earthlink.net
<mailto:penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>>, 'Bruce Simon'
<bjs...@yahoo.com <mailto:bjs...@yahoo.com>>, 'Dix McComas'
<dixmccom...@gmail.com <mailto:dixmccom...@gmail.com>>, 'Grant
Franks' <grantfra...@earthlink.net
<mailto:grantfra...@earthlink.net>>
Subject: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Hi everybody,
I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we seem to
keep coming back to this topic, even when we are talking about
globalism.
So. Let me just share one thought. I have said a hundred
times that I think the great achievement of the Right in my
life time has been to problematize (Ugh!) the Deweyan
consensus of the 1950’s One of the elements of that consensus
was that there is a truth of most matters and if we gather
inclusively, talk calmly, reason closely, study carefully,
investigate rigorously, we will, together , come to it. What
was, at the time of my coming of age, the shared foundation of
argument, became over last 50 years, /a position in the
argument. /The alternative to this Deweyan position seems to
be something like, “/There is no truth of the matter; there is
only the exercise of power. He who wins the argument, by
whatever means, wins the truth. Truth is not something that
is arrived at; it is won.”/
So. My sense of trump is that in fact, he is not lying. On the
contrary, he does not share the view of discourse that makes
lying a possibility. From Trump’s point of view, “Whatever I
can win with is true.” Hence, if he wins with what we call “a
lie”, it is true.
I feel we are straying along the edge of some *Nietzschean
*chasm here. Unfortunately I haven’t read any Nietzsche . A
brief rummage in Wikipedia, led me to The Parable of the
Madman
<http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/nietzsche-madman.asp>. And
THAT led me to wonder if the TV Series, Madmen
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men>, about marketing execs
in the 60’s, was written with Nietzsche in mind. In any case,
if there is ever a domain in which the truth is that which
wins, it would be marketing.
So, if we are going to counter Trump, it cannot be by
demonstrating that he lies. It has to be by demonstrating
that liars don’t win.
Heavy lift.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
