Where does our resident hermeneuticist fit in the two following ideas? 1. Axiomatic Statements 2. The preamble of the US Constitution ("we hold these truths to be self-evident")
On 11/15/19 6:53 AM, Prof David West wrote: > Nick mentioned earlier a concern about relativist talk in this thread. > and Eric is using the term in his post. Lest hermeneuticism — a > position I have been advocating — be confused/conflated with > relativism (perhaps an unfounded fear), I wish to note the following: > > Hermeneutics (intellectual genealogy in previous post) asserts that > all is interpretation. A corollary of that assertion is there are no > "facts," no objective truths. A second corollary: there are no grounds > to "privilege" one interpretation over another. (The point of > deconstruction is, simply, exposure of the chain of interpretations > and the reasons that they were adopted over alternatives.) > > A hermeneuticist would _not_ assert that "competence-incompetence, > stupid-smart" lack tangible meaning. Nor would they say that "no point > of view (interpretation) is better than another. Of course, "better" > is a matter of interpretation. > > Asserting that all is interpretation is an invitation to engage in a > conversation about "meaning" or "reality" from a level playing field — > i.e. absent any grant of privilege to one interpretation over another; > and, any expectation that somewhere, somehow, even the most consensual > and widely shared interpretation can, or will, morph into some kind of > "fact" or "truth." > > davew > > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, at 12:47 PM, Eric Charles wrote: >> >> " A nihilist might adopt a campaign slogan like Any Functioning >> Adult 2020, because the truly objectionable things are >> incompetence and stupidity. " >> >> >> But there's the rub in this conversation. "Any Functioning Adult >> 2020" could be intended as a joke, pointing out that the current >> president is so incompetent that literally any functional adult would >> be better. OR, it could be a low-level nihilistic joke, made by >> someone who knows full well there are no functional adults in the >> race, and even if there were that person wouldn't be elected, and we >> are all going to die meaningless deaths no matter who wins. (I >> imagine that is what it sounds like translated into Russian, based on >> my deep love of Dostoevsky). BUT, neither of those positions is a >> relativist. >> >> The relativist asserts that competence-incompetence and stupid-smart >> have no tangible meaning. >> >> Who is competent and who isn't? Eh, it depends on your point of view, >> and no point of view is better than another. The designation of >> "competence" is a colonialist activity providing illusory >> justification for the marginalization already oppressed groups, and >> while it has a valence, it has no basis in "reality" (i.e., it is >> bad, you should stop doing it, and you should deeply hate yourself >> for ever having had done it). To label the president as incompetent >> is to inappropriately invalidate his way of being in the world; ways >> of being are all equally valid. >> >> Who is stupid and who isn't? Eh, it depends on your point of view, >> and no point of view is better than another..... >> >> If you believe that SOME people ARE competent and/or smart, then you >> can't be a relativist. If you believe there is still some chance that >> competent and smart people can make a difference, you are not a >> nihilist. >> >> Old Soviet Joke: A man walks into a shop and asks, "You wouldn't >> happen to have any fish, would you?". The shop assistant replies, >> "You've got it wrong – ours is a butcher's shop. We don't have any >> meat. You're looking for the fish shop across the road. There they >> don't have any fish!" >> >> >> >> ----------- >> Eric P. Charles, Ph.D. >> Department of Justice - Personnel Psychologist >> American University - Adjunct Instructor >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 12:13 AM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com >> <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: >> >> Nick writes: >> >> >> >> < What I see in much relativism is not fallibilism, which I >> endorse, but nihilistic fatalism**, which I deplore. I am not >> sure I can argue either for my endorsement OR my condemnation, >> but them’s my values. Nihilistic fatalism is endorsed >> opportunistically by people like Putin because, while they >> themselves are planning for the “inevitable” collapse, they are >> arguing that there is no future in planning. > >> >> >> >> IThere can be goals without ideology. I think a nihilist would >> also have to agree there is also no harm in one value system >> stomping on another value system since they are both just value >> systems and so impoverished and arbitrary. In that spirit, a >> progressive can be a nihilist simply to collect a partial >> ordering of different kinds of premises that serve one defined >> purpose or another, without taking those purposes too >> seriously. A nihilist might adopt a campaign slogan like Any >> Functioning Adult 2020, because the truly objectionable things >> are incompetence and stupidity. >> >> >> >> Marcus >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove