Leni Riefenstahl? Ugh. Sounds like an example of Godwin's law: as an online discussion continues, the probability of a reference or comparison to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_lawHere in Germany there is nearly every week a documentary on TV about the time of the Nazis, often at midnight. Hitler's dogs, Hitler's drugs, Hitler's home in Austria, etc. For me it feels as if the past is haunting us. There might be a psychological aspect behind (collective) spooky phenomena :-/-J. -------- Original message --------From: David Eric Smith <desm...@santafe.edu> Date: 9/23/21 23:45 (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] ivermectin So the Monbiot article below is really interesting.Let me put in the link to a pdf (I don’t know whether legitimate or in violation of some paywall) to an article I mentioned before:https://campus.albion.edu/gcocks/files/2013/08/Fascinating-Fascism.pdfspecifically the first section on Leni Riefenstahl and what Sontag called “fascist aesthetics”, a term that appears to have quite strongly affected my thinking, because many things keep coming back to it and taking an orientation from it. (n.b. the criticism of Sontag’s philosophical style in the great-fun article by Justin E.H. Smith that Glen forwarded a few days ago; I am aware of that at the same time as sending this link because I think there is worth in it.)That the Nazis should have advocated many things that (raised in other contexts) we consider good choices, like non-destructive land management or things of that sort, the Sontag article brings me to the question of not what they endorsed, but why they endorsed it.I would quasi-summarize her idea of fascist aesthetics in a line or two by saying that it wants ecstatic experience to be the ground for choosing. I couldn’t tell you why my dislike for this orientation is as intense as it appears to be — I”m sure it reflects something wrong with me, but I don’t really care, reflecting something else wrong with me I’m sure — but it seems to be commanding decision-making in a lot of areas at the moment. (b.t.w. this is also why I can’t summon the delight in William James that some people keep wanting me to experience, people who seem to think James and Peirce were of a piece on what Pragmatism is, where to me they seem almost poles.)There seem to be communities that are now dismayed, or just bored, with the way scientific argument gives you a back-trace to its conclusions. Arguing that they follow from “first principles” is I think an error: all this language is very much middle-out, and figuring out how to properly use a middle-out language is a profound and interesting problem (“problem” sense of “puzzle to be worked on”, not sense of “thing to be denied or rejected”). But the back-trace connects some choices to other choices, and its big value is that it is more than nothing. Getting more than nothing is rather a rare prize, and something worth working toward and then protecting if you can have a little bit.But those bored with it, who seem to endlessly repeat their position, and when asked to clarify, will repeat it again, seem to have a position something like “you’ll see when you see”. It is distastefully close, in my perception, to those who will say “you really are a spiritual person, and you just won’t admit it. When you stop resisting and admit it, you will come around to where I am, and you will see.” That doesn’t seem to me like any way to make decisions that differs from what leaves us in our current mess, since people have been doing it forever. Yet those who are into it now are convinced that this time they hold the true innovation.Very hard for me to understand.EricOn Sep 24, 2021, at 1:57 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote:https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardian.com%2fcommentisfree%2f2021%2fsep%2f22%2fleftwingers-far-right-conspiracy-theories-anti-vaxxers-power&c=E,1,YQWY-Qx-D6GAp4uFSbw9DpsNm0UPherqjbJBTzVjSG_of5c03uW3M1Peo6dUo_IiTgPC8e0gxQA9PhkeNnQbLgsUGzPtJnH2zqUVd0qr3S7PDBI,&typo=1"The notion of the 'sovereign body', untainted by chemical contamination, has begun to fuse with the fear that a shadowy cabal is trying to deprive us of autonomy."On 9/23/21 5:24 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:Well, I for one am always very suspicious of what my doctor tells me.It's not that I'm against modern medicine, IMO they do wonders, but are their interests always aligned 100% with mine as a patient? Me thinketh not, modern medicine is money-driven.I go to the doctor for advice, but ultimately I claim responsibility for my own body; I don't abdicate my health to somebody else.For example, I just listened to a documentary "Big Pharma - How much power do drug companies have? "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_W3yRA9I8 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_W3yRA9I8> on Youtube, going into details of the greed of the pharmaceutical companies.-- "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie."☤>$ uǝlƃ.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listservZoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,7QY-CB0jY0-3m9FXskvIwFDd6gkxOSryK3iKrpu8Kpq_xLuoWLeD8aDpo_2iCSo7lvmJRNfFLd2ZgFMsf8VaVIp3uU1n9mj6svjFnIv6NSpxC9TgfYIPkw,,&typo=1FRIAM-COMIC https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,WpeKIobLFuTzoz0fxZwqZ7kE9SSkkusCGENMmVR9TgGBT_KAOh30A8j8-G7o_rBERbu62Fhu_SkruUgqknfMAQKaw3PWYDKunFdFF8nwftBENwcpO5fAwmTi5w,,&typo=1archives: 5/2017 thru present https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Lttkm_XosvvuZ1Uc8nT4E07ohGjNgoMlt7w0RNXECcvxy3K9qkRHibfC8hjz_GFnqQdUPKmiShNEDUlyVt7ZDCbUtmv1iASjEUZbZUgFIxhpCSWDbw,,&typo=1 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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