Maybe both? This is an active area of climate science research because there are both positive and negative feedback loops from an increase in water vapor and cloud formation, and the actual balance is very complex.
https://cgcs.mit.edu/research/convection-atmospheric-water-vapor-and-cloud-formation On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 7:14 AM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: > According to Seibert and Rees a small population is the only solution, > right? > > Merle, does water vapor in the stratosphere cause cooling, like an > umbrella, or warming, like a blanket? > > Frank > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 10:38 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> > wrote: > >> The current situation suggests a solution to global warming: A nuclear >> winter with a small residual population. >> >> On Mar 10, 2022, at 9:26 PM, Carl Tollander <c...@plektyx.com> wrote: >> >> >> Not to be too much of a hydrogen fanboi here, but it looks like we would >> for many generation cases still be ahead compared to where we are with >> fossil. >> >> http://gcep.stanford.edu/pdfs/i6W09tDtK-48PTmzHazOuw/3.2.3.Jacobson_Golden_07.pdf >> >> My impression is that the transport and leakage issue is one that the UH >> folks are trying to address. Now if they could achieve that in a vacuum.... >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 9:52 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Back to growing fungus, I guess. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Merle Lefkoff >>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 10, 2022 8:42 PM >>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>> friam@redfish.com> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: International firm to invest $254M in ABQ >>> hydrogen factory -- ABQ Journal >>> >>> >>> >>> Oh, please, Frank! I guess I need to show you a bit more about why this >>> is a bad idea. (Or maybe you're pulling my leg.). See below from my "bad >>> climate mitigation notes" file and be better informed. >>> >>> >>> >>> First, the color code. "Green" hydrogen, produced by electrolysis is >>> expensive, so it's produced by steam reforming--cheaper, but it uses >>> natural gas as a feedstock and produces "grey" hydrogen which contributes >>> nothing to climate change mitigation. But "grey" can become "blue" >>> hydrogen when the CO2 is captured by carbon storage techniques that are >>> very doubtful on many levels. >>> >>> >>> >>> Also darn, atmospheric hydrogen sequesters hydroxyl radicals responsible >>> for the removal of methane. Uh-oh! There is even more interference when >>> hydrogen combines with oxygen in the stratosphere to form water vapor, >>> which also contributes to climate change. Finally, the entire process of >>> hydrogen production, transport, distribution, storage and use is affected >>> by common leaks that release gas into the atmosphere. This is one of the >>> biggest problems among many, and it also seems to be under-reported and not >>> well understood by people looking for easy answers. >>> >>> >>> >>> Like you, dear Frank. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> <https://twitter.com/yanes68> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 8:57 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I am a former pilot. I think this is an excellent idea. Don't confuse >>> hydrogen with hydrogen bombs. Burning hydrogen produces water, not CO2. >>> >>> --- >>> Frank C. Wimberly >>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >>> >>> 505 670-9918 >>> Santa Fe, NM >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:53 PM Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I need assurance from somebody--anybody--that this is an incredibly bad >>> idea from a governor who drank some fatally spiked Kool-Aid. >>> >>> >>> International firm to invest $254M in ABQ hydrogen factory >>> >>> >>> >>> “This project puts New Mexico and Universal Hydrogen at the center of >>> the global effort to decarbonize transportation and aviation in >>> particular,” Lujan Grisham said in a statement. “Hydrogen, solar, wind and >>> alternative energy are job-rich industries and New Mexico’s partnerships >>> with these companies are part of a forward-thinking model to create a >>> robust and diversified economy, while being a part of the solution when it >>> comes to a changing climate.” >>> >>> >>> BY KEVIN ROBINSON-AVILA / JOURNAL STAFF WRITER >>> <https://www.abqjournal.com/author/krobinson-avila> >>> >>> PUBLISHED: THURSDAY, MARCH 10TH, 2022 AT 2:47PM >>> UPDATED: THURSDAY, MARCH 10TH, 2022 AT 2:52PM >>> >>> >>> <https://www.abqjournal.com/2478078/international-firm-to-invest-254m-in-abq-hydrogen-factory.html?utm_source=single-post-notification&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=International%20firm%20to%20invest%20$254M%20in%20ABQ%20hydrogen%20factory&utm_edition=202203102152> >>> >>> Universal Hydrogen — an international company with modular hydrogen >>> storage technology for planes, ground transportation and heavy >>> manufacturing — will invest $254 million in a new manufacturing and >>> distribution center at the Albuquerque International Sunport, potentially >>> employing up to 500 people, Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham announced Thursday >>> afternoon.The state will contribute $10 million in Local Economic >>> Development Act funding for the project, which could have a $700 million >>> economic impact here over the next 10 years, according to the Governor’s >>> Office, which held a news conference Thursday at Hotel Albuquerque in Old >>> Town to announce the project. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - >>> . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: >>> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >>> >>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - >>> . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: >>> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> - >>> >>> >>> >>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - >>> . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: >>> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > -- Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. Center for Emergent Diplomacy emergentdiplomacy.org Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA mobile: (303) 859-5609 skype: merle.lelfkoff2 twitter: @merle110
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