OK Nick, You asked for it: I totally agree with you.
As I believe you do, I think metaphor is absolutely essential, generalizing a bit on Quine's statement "at the fringe of science only metaphor can guide us" I would replace science with understanding. But when it comes to the brain, Mind, Consciousness, and Intelligence—no one has produced a useful or even usable metaphor that increases our understanding. The only point of departure, is I would find less fault with anthropomorphism than I do with the computational metaphor that dominates the conversation about brain-mind-intelligence. Mary is a mere imp compared to that Satan. I do like Hopfield's metaphor of a topographic surface that channels "rainfall" (inputs) to "oceans" (outputs) as an explanation for the operation of one possible bit of "innards," i.e., a neural net. davew On Fri, May 9, 2025, at 5:16 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Oh Gosh, Jochen. On the one hand I am deeply indebted to FRIAM members for > allowing me to noodle in areas of thought where I have no business; on the > other hand, I feel obligated not to hide from you how very, very bad I think > Mary C. Lamia’s thinking is. In the first place, lover of metaphors that am, > I think the anthropomorphism of the brain is one of the most dangerous > metaphors a human can bring to psychology, because it sets off an eternal > loop of thought from which there is no escape. Meteorology and Psychology > have much in common. They both have to do with objects with innards > operating in environments. With Psychology, the objects are human, the > innards are the guts and brain, and the environment is the people and things > around us. In Meteorology, the objects are the storms, the innards are the > fronts and other structures of cyclones, and the environment is the earth’s > surface and the larger circulation of its atmosphere. Perhaps I feel drawn > to Meteorology just because it seems so like a behavioral science. (Or, to > get the order of events right, I was drawn to Psychology because it was so > like Meteorology.) But we must keep our levels of organization straight. > And if we, like Mary C., are to make metaphors between the whole (the person) > and the part (the brain) and then to say that the part is manipulating the > whole, she ought to be damn clear what kind of metaphorical world she his let > herself into or she will never get out alive. I don’t think she knows > anything she is talking about. I would be terrified if one of my > college-aged grandchildren were to fall into the hands of such a person. > > I am deeply sorry if I am being a jerk. (And will no doubt deeplier sorrier > when one of you points out both that I am both being a jerk and that I am > wrong). If you were tempted to carry on this conversation further, now I > have been a jerk, I would love to explore with you how some aspect of Mary’s > thought accorded with your experience and perhaps gave you comfort or insight > because of that. When she talks of the brain, what is she actually talking > about for you. Because, if one thing is damned sure, it is that when people > talk about their brains, they are talking about something they have never > touched or seen or heard or felt. They are talking about a beetle in a box, > a nothing. Or they are using the brain as a model of behavior. > > OK, Russ, Dave, Glen, Marcus, Erics, have at me. > > Nick > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Jochen Fromm > *Sent:* Thursday, April 24, 2025 2:10 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [FRIAM] Your personal truth > > If Nick shares his struggles with weather I can share my unqualified thoughts > about psychology :-P I was thinking about the orange menace, how he deceives > everyone and how he manipulates his followers by controlling their emotions > and I was wondering if emotions deceive us in general. Do emotions deceive us > by creating a reality distortion field that paints the objects they have > identified as desirable (primarily food & mates for supper and pairing time) > in the brightest colors? > > > Emotions certainly need to manipulate us in order to control us. Their > purpose is to influence our behavior and interactions. Psychologist Mary C. > Lamia writes "Without any deliberate effort on your part, your brain > evaluates every situation you encounter and decides if an emotion should be > activated to alert and protect you" [1]. They are in a sense the PR machine > and advertising agency of the body. As if the body would create an > advertising agency that highlights the objects it should seek. > > > Emotions deceive us because they exaggerate. If we are in love they turn the > desired object of person into some kind of wonderful dream. We only perceive > positive traits while negative ones are overlooked. If we hate something we > only perceive negative traits. These distortions act on top of your beliefs > which "create a cognitive lens through which you interpret the events of your > world" [2] > > > They exaggerate to alert and protect us. Mary C. Lamia writes "By creating > anxiety, anger, sadness, fear, guilt, shame, disgust, embarrassment, or any > number of emotional responses that your brain has at its disposal, your > emotional system attempts to inform and protect you by making you feel > whatever it is you need to know." [1] > > > Emotions deceive us because they can be misguided based on your previous > experience, for example in anxiety disorders or addiction: "Your emotional > system has no reason to lie, although it can be misguided based on your > previous experiences in the world that have informed it." [1] > > > Apparently emotions create a personal truth for each of us which shows us the > world as they (on behalf of our selfish genes) want us to see it. A kind of > personalized, distorted version of reality that reflects the importance of > each object based on our personal longings and desires. Mary C. Lamia writes > "nevertheless, your emotions will tell you the truth - your truth - even if > you don't want to listen." [1] > > > [1] > https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/intense-emotions-and-strong-feelings/201208/do-emotions-lie > > > [2] > https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-forward/202009/how-your-thinking-creates-your-reality > > > -J. > > .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... > --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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