I hope I am sticking to the thread, hermeneutically ...

Assume three groups: one speaks, thinks, and dreams in Babel-17; another in 
Adamic (aka "language of the birds"); and the vastly larger group only in 
*"appetites."*

The Babel-17 folks are very clever and have used their language to express many 
wondrous things, including machines that, mostly, convincingly replicate 
Babel-17 expressiveness. Smitten with their cleverness and power, they look 
down on, with at least a modicum of justification, the larger crowd,  the 
"Appetite-istas." The fears, concerns, and even the lack of wealth required to 
possess the means to access and play with Babel-17, are grounds for condemning 
them to the trash heap of history.

What is interesting to me, is the seemingly absolute conviction that Babel-17 
is the ultimate and the only way to speak, think, dream. If the Adamic folk are 
noticed at all, they are immediately and scornfully dismissed as irrelevant, or 
worse.

davew


 [Babel-17 is an SF novel by Samuel R. Delany]

On Wed, Nov 26, 2025, at 11:53 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> The moral failing is letting the fog of fear take over, and fabricating any 
> story that seems to work to rationalize it.  The hate and fear of immigrants 
> on the blue collar side is giving way to hate and fear of AI on the white 
> collar side. 
>  
> *From: *Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of glen 
> <[email protected]>
> *Date: *Wednesday, November 26, 2025 at 9:00 AM
> *To: *[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] mental imagery
> I love that we're sticking to the thread, but in a hermeneutic way. An 
> inability to envision is akin to an inability execute Lean 4 code. If you 
> don't have the hardware, you can't run the computation. The same could be 
> said about entitled college students or the poor sods who've never benefited 
> from a hero dose of Ψ. I credit Fanon for teaching me that relatively vapid 
> things like the No Kings protest are inadequate for the victims of genocide. 
> Perhaps Israel was destined to be genocidal. "For if the last shall be first, 
> this will only come to pass after a murderous and decisive struggle between 
> the two protagonists."
> 
> Steve's use of "conceit" often confuses me. If I replace it with "controlling 
> idea" ... or, better, "occult controlling idea", then it seems like agency is 
> *the* conceit of our modern times. Framing one's inability to compute as a 
> moral failing feels akin to blaming the victim. But what choice do we have? 
> We absolutely must, and always do, blame the victim. Right? If you're 
> aphantasic, then it's clearly because you're too lazy to put in the effort.
> 
> On 11/26/25 8:23 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Rather the IP has some defensive function at the population level for 
> > protecting valuable things from a population that values nothing beyond 
> > their own comfort.
> 
> On 11/26/25 8:15 AM, Jon Zingale wrote:
> > I mean, yeah, preach on. For some it's nothing more than a Holiday in 
> > Cambodia.
> 
> On 11/26/25 7:53 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
> > On the other hand, we might (also?) just be apes picking nits out of one 
> > another's furry thoughts?   Which is it's own mode of coercion/engagement?
> -- 
> ¡sıɹƎ ןıɐH ⊥ ɐןןǝdoɹ ǝ uǝןƃ
> ὅτε oi μὲν ἄλλοι κύνες τοὺς ἐχϑροὺς δάκνουσιν, ἐγὰ δὲ τοὺς φίλους, ἵνα σώσω.
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