"Prolly" correct. But not so much anti-AI as anti AI hyperbole and AI advocates (just another power grab by a self-elected elite so they can control the rest of us).
I am mildly agnostic, mostly pessimistic, as to whether or not it is possible to create a non-biology based "intelligence" or "consciousness." The foundation for that belief is the fact that there are essential differences between deterministic systems (from which an AI would need to emerge) and complex systems (from which human intelligence emerged). I do not believe it possible to replicate/duplicate a complex system in a deterministic one. I am not one who believes in "human exceptionalism," but I am certain that there is a lot more to the human mind, human thinking, and human intelligence than what Simon, Newell, Minsky, Altman, et.al. believe there is. Asserting that the way college professors and computer scientists "think" is the epitome, if not the totality, of how humans "think" is the ultimate hubris. While I do not fear the Singularity, nor SkyNet, I think AI poses an existential threat: environmentally and widespread taking down of the power grid. Also a imminent financial threat as a collapsing bubble takes down the U.S. economy. davew [Aside to glen: hope you have not had time to look at the AI and Consciousness paper I sent you. Please discard. Radically revised, based on some excellent feedback coming in a day or two.] On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, at 9:30 AM, glen wrote: > There are different categories of anti-AI. So it's difficult to answer > your question without knowing *which* categories of anti-AI you're > seeing. One type comprises "creatives" - writers, animators, etc. See > https://www.data-mania.com/blog/anthropic-copyright-settlement-training-data-risk/ > > It seems to me that many in this category aren't so much anti-AI as > they are "I need money to buy food. So please don't steal from me." If > the pro-AI people don't understand that, then they're just stupid ... > or maybe they don't care ... or maybe they're hardcore meritocracy > people and it's fine if the creatives go homeless and die in the > streets. IDK. > > Another category of anti-AI is on the consumer end. My friends and > colleagues send me a LOT of generated garbage. This was bad before the > advent of the transformer. It's 1/2 the reason I quit Facebook. It even > goes all the way back to when the normies got access to email. Spam was > (still is, I think) ill-defined. I was forced to help Renee' troll her > spam folder the other day. It was filled with promotional email from > various companies she buys from. I'm like "That's not spam! You signed > up to get those emails." And she's like "I don't care. It's spam." So I > said, "then unsubscribe!" And she said, "I don't care." 🤷 So the > anti-AI Slop sentiment is real. It's just more intense because now you > can get spammed by stupid brain farts from your "friends" (who have no > respect for your attention) in the form of Sora-generated pixels or > Claude-programmed Sorry simulators. >8^D See > https://www.techradar.com/pro/open-source-software-users-are-being-hit-by-ai-written-junk-bug-reports > > Still another category of anti-AI might be named the > Transcomputationalists. These are people who seem to think biology (or > spirituality) is somehow fundamentally different from what any kind of > computer can do. This group would include people like Roger Penrose > *and* prolly our own Dave West (?). But it would also include people > who believe in ghosts, Ancient Aliens, hypercomputation, etc. The > objection from this category is that *if* they're right, then when we > anthropomorphize our computers too much (e.g. replacing your "bar > friend" with ChatGPT) creates a huge cognitive bias ... a dangerous > bias that risks enslavement to a badly flawed understanding of how the > world actually works. See https://buttondown.com/maiht3k/archive/ > > Anyway, those are 3 of them. I tried to frame their objections in > ordinary language. Sorry if I've failed. > > Am *I* anti- or pro-? Neither. Both. I'm a pluralist, and mercenary. > Anyone who postures as any 1 thing seems deranged to me. But I do need > to eat. Luckily, I'm almost dead and if I don't eat, the world will be > fine. I feel bad for the kids, though. > > > On 1/7/26 4:52 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote: >> Thanks man! >> I am so confused. Folks say: pls stop with repetitive jobs a robot can do. >> So for a few years now people with a bunch PHDs are..trying very hard to >> make that a reality. Sigh I mean sure generative ai going bat crazy >> (hulicinating) is bad. But >> As a wiseman might say: >> *sigh* like hello? People want help with insanely mundane, or insanely >> dangerous jobs done by robots...well need the brains (models) trained and >> doing workouts(collecting data to [hopefully] do better)lol we probably >> won't get the ED-209 for a while. but man who knows: Drugs(the medicine >> kind!) food, better driving, blah blah. I'd be down (sometimes) for a uber >> with a robot taking me to a doctors---as a option. lol I mean sure getting >> steam power model 706 or bamboo jeep with with a a Foghorn levels of loud >> horn with AcMe Driver service might be more mind of MagicalReal and Drive In >> Mutant levels of weird cozy...but if an eccentric driver isn't available? 7 >> of 9 or T'pol sending over a remote controlled Uber or something? Wicked! >> >> Can folks help me grok the AniAi FUD? Better. I hear them going: omg my job >> and meaning in life--ok that's legit. Having Scruffy artists that pose Ai? >> bring it on! there was a super fun DJ mix I stumbled across on Spotify that >> was hillarius Djent, and ragemetal core mixture of halloween and christmas >> stuff. (humans made it acording to spotify) >> But then I switched to youtube for Ai generated white noise and ambients and >> found a bunch that were just cheasburgers for the ears to cook to. >> And yet I read about all kinds of people going zomg RAM, GPU's my job! >> Are people really that worried already? seems like it's just FOX and Friends >> fearmongering...but what's the friam hot take? >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 7, 2026 at 1:35 PM glen <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Why not ask Qwen3:32b how Alibaba does it? It took your Eli5 seriously! >> 8^D Maybe we really want an "explain it like I'm 17"? >> >> Qwen3 says: >> Imagine you have a toy robot that can draw pictures. Normally, the robot >> needs a big, powerful battery (like a supercomputer) to do this. But Alibaba >> found a way to make their robot work with a tiny battery (light hardware) >> by doing a few clever things: >> >> 1. **Simpler Tools**: They use "smart brushes" (optimized algorithms) >> that draw good pictures without needing fancy, heavy tools. Think of it like >> using a magic pencil that works well even if it looks basic. >> >> 2. **Less Ink, Same Art**: They teach the robot to use just the right >> amount of "ink" (computing power). For example, if the robot only needs to >> color in parts of a picture, it skips the rest, saving energy. >> >> 3. **Practice Makes Perfect**: They train the robot to focus on the most >> important details (like edges of a cat or a tree) and ignore tiny, >> unimportant stuff. This makes the robot faster and less hungry for power. >> >> 4. **Special Battery**: They might have a "magic battery" (custom chips) >> made just for drawing, so it uses less energy than a regular battery. >> >> So, even though drawing pictures usually needs a lot of power, Alibaba’s >> robot is smart, efficient, and uses the right tools to do it with a tiny >> battery! 🌟 >> >> >> On 1/7/26 11:46 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote: >> > Can someone (try to) Eli5: how the heck is it that Alibabab is making >> (some) headway with generative images and machine vision on relatively light >> hardware OO - just curious. >> > >> > > > -- > ¡sıɹƎ ןıɐH ⊥ ɐןןǝdoɹ ǝ uǝןƃ > ὅτε oi μὲν ἄλλοι κύνες τοὺς ἐχϑροὺς δάκνουσιν, ἐγὰ δὲ τοὺς φίλους, ἵνα σώσω. > > > > .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. > / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. 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