I have too met your dog. I have met all dogs. Dogs do communicate about things that are banal, everyday to us, but they aren't to the dogs. They also communicate by peeing, by the way. And by barking. I've spent 40+ years studying animal communication, for gods sake. I didnt say that animals don't communicate. I said that they are hard pressed to communicate in the offhand, banal everyday way that we do about stupid trivial little things like SALT. They have to work at that. I am sure they do communicate with one another about banal things. "Move over you're in my spot."
Dogs notwithstanding, if Glen says that communication is impossible, he's just wrong. I am sure he is saying SOMETHING TRUE, because Glen usually does. I can imagine specifications and qualifications of that statement that are true. "Its impossible to communicate with somebody who isnt listening" Thats true enough. Its possible that we in FRIAM have just run out of reasons to LISTEN. That may be what Jon's post and his reference to Ezra Klein was about. We definitely have a shortage of listeners in todays marketplace of ideas. Funny the market has not responded to that need. I am now paying at least one person to read my substack. Nick Grrrr Nick ------------------------------ *From:* Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of Steve Smith < [email protected]> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 4, 2026 1:39 PM *To:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Dead Stack? Nick - You haven't met my dog. He has a stare that very explicitly means "please pass me the salt<kibble>" and he means it, he will followup with a pawing gesture if I ignore him for more than about 2 minutes. My chickens have a very acute body-language-gesture that tells the foraging big-birds in their yard "get the H3ll outta here!" and similarly to the small-birds, their body language seems to say "I can't see you!"? Though both may in fact be doing it in their own mythopoetic form, my linear-linguistic self turns it into a simple directive. *Humans can be so effing linear!* - Steve On 2/4/26 1:32 pm, Nicholas Thompson wrote: Communication has occurred when your behavior directed toward me has designed my behavior to suit your needs. "Please pass me the salt" is a communication when, as a consequence of its utterance, I pass you the salt. We could bicker about what we would call it if I passed you the pepper, but the basic principle is as above. To say that communication is impossible is nonsense. We do it all the time. It is what makes humans special. Other animals are happy to do poetry, art, or music, but they have a heluva time asking for the salt. Grrrr Nick On Wed, Feb 4, 2026 at 1:12 PM Steve Smith <[email protected]> wrote: I think you’ve answered Owen’s question? and to paraphrase/convolve glen and the five-man-electric band: *"Words, words, everywhere words, can't you bleep the words?"* Glen has regularly asserted here (paradoxically) that he *doesn't believe in communication at all *(my lame paraphrase, demonstrating the point?!). I'm inclined to (paradoxically) believe him. I have been chattering with the *swarms* of Robins which are (re)migrating through the area again (heading back north I suppose?)... their group dynamics are unfamiliar to me this year. Usually we get groups (not flocks as such) of 10-20 visit... but yesterday I saw tens and tens in my yard, around my pond (they love the pond) but when I disrupted them, they fled to a large cottonwood tree where there were perhaps hundreds who joined them in flight, almost "murmurating" away... fascinating. And of course, they don't give a birds-ass about my words, about "groups", or "flocks" or "swarms" or "fleeing" or "flight" or "birds-ass" for that matter... this is the first year in my memory (25 years at this location, 45 in the general area, 69 in the southern Rockies and nearby high deserts) that Robins have remained present through the winter. My chickens tolerate "little gray sparrow-like-birds" in their "pasture" scavenging for grain, but run off anything bigger (at least jays, robins, flickers)... I never noticed that before. And do the ClawdBot Agents thrashing around on MoltBook have the same conversations as we do here? Maybe indistinguishable? What kind of Stochastic Parrot-Farm (nod to Doug) are we anyway? - Steve (the Stochastic Parrot and erstwhile Underdog Character who flies off in all directions at once like a ChatterBot running on a TPU cluster?). *From:* Friam <[email protected]> <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Nicholas Thompson *Sent:* Wednesday, February 4, 2026 11:12 AM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> <[email protected]> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Dead Stack? Ok, so here is an example of the KIND of thing we might have discussed at a FRIAM meeting in the old days: NICK: iF friction is negligible between two layers, how in fact do two layers come to affect one another? FRIAM MOB:: (affectionate exasperation) When you have read a physics book, a philosophy book, and 8 math books, come back and we'll explain it to you. NICK TO MOB: Nuthn' doin'. If you are so smart, you should be able to explain it to me NOW. MOB TO NICK: Oh, God. Do we have to? OH, OKAAAAAAAAAAY. SUB MOB 1 TO NICK: Any idiot knows that THIS is how it works SUB MOB 2 TO NICK: Any idiot knows that THAT is how it works. NICK TO MOBS: Any idiot knows that THIS and THAT can't both be true. ETC. I learned almost everything I know from those conversations. I miss them terribly. Nick On Wed, Feb 4, 2026 at 11:32 AM Gary Schiltz <[email protected]> wrote: My feeling is that there was a bubble of activity in Santa Fe about complexity in the late 1990s (see Wired’s article about “Silicon Mesa”) that burst in about 2001. Many who were there are now old farts 😆 On Tue, Feb 3, 2026 at 7:47 PM Jon Zingale <[email protected]> wrote: I know I came to this group in what appears to be its twilight. The in-person meetups are weirdly sad. I feel pressed to ask if it is the case that everyone is either: 1. on vacation/ too busy 2. too depressed / failing to find inspiration 3. moved on to greener forums 4. preferring the company of LLMs ... N. waiting for someone frail to post Sometimes I trawl reddit or whatever discord, but I cannot help but feel like beacons of inspiration are becoming fewer and further between. This group has managed to inspire me, keep my interest, for over a decade. In that time, I pushed myself to understand perspectives that I would never have dreamed existed. I hope there is still something to talk about. .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ -- Nicholas S. 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