Michael Großer <michael.gros...@gmx.de> writes: > Lucio Chiappetti wrote: >> On Mon, 20 Jun 2016, lee wrote: >> >>> Interesting :) It seems very confusing, though. How do you remember >>> what is where? I have a plain setup with just 6x6 pages and many times >>> have to flip between them to find the particular page I want to go to. >> >> Well, after a long time working with 2 desktops each 2x2 pages, a while >> ago I junked the idea of separate desktops and pages. Now I have only 7 >> desktops each of 1 page (well, I have buttons to switch them to 2x1 1x2 >> and 2x2 but I'd never used them). >> >> I have the pager almost invariably exposed, and know which desk I am in >> because it is highlighted in the pager in a different colour. >> >> Three of the desks are named Mail Web and Net, the other are ABCD. I >> know in which desk I am also by a label in the bottom right corner, and >> by the background colour of the root window. >> >> Although I have root menu entries and keyboard accelerators to switch >> desktops, I almost invariably do it clicking on the pager, >> >> To know which application is in which desk, I usually rely on habits >> (mail is in Mail, browser is in Web, virtual machines if any are in Net >> etc.) and on the miniicons in the pager, >> >> In the rare case I forgot what is where (e.g. for the xclipboard, or >> because the window is hidden), I use MB2 bound to FvwmWinList, which >> lists all my windows by title, so I can switch there easily, >> >> I do use a lot the "sticky" mode of the window menu, to move a window >> across desktops (I make it sticky so it appears on all, switch to the >> final desktop, and unstick it), however I have also functions in the >> window menu to move the window to a specific desktop and I use them >> sometimes. >> >> >> You can get a flavour of the old and new approaches (and the configs) in >> http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/WWW/Opinions/window.html > > My approach to remember where I am is similar: I have habits. Each > special application and each topic gets the same place every time.
That's what I'm trying, too. I'm starting to think that my confusion comes from changing the window size: Perhaps I unconsciously remember where I am from what the page looks like (i. e. applications, and the arrangement of their windows). When I switch a window from half-size to full size, the other windows on that page become invisible, and the arrangement of windows I'm looking at is something I don't remember because it was different when I switched to that page. I still remember from which page I came and how I would get back, but I just don't know where I am because it all looks different. Apparently, the way-finding information gets stored when I switch to a page, and it isn't updated while I remain there --- why would it? It doesn't make sense to update way-finding information while one remains in place. When I want to go to another page and recall the information stored when I arrived on the current page, it doesn't match what I'm looking at, so the information is automatically discarded because it's obviously not right --- and difficult to update. So I start switching between pages to figure out where I am. MOTT, I switch to the wrong page first, and I think I abort the attempt to recall the information about that page, and to figure out in which direction I need to switch from here, because that's also difficult, and it seems easier and faster to keep switching. It then annoys me that I can't figure out any straight way that takes me to the page I want to go to, and that I switch between them like crazy, because I always think I should be able to remember. Perhaps knowing this can help me to remember. I need to try that out. > At work, where I deal with many different applications and topics, > my habits involve: > > - Desktop cluster 1, desk 3, page 4: Cluster? > --> Thunderbird (Icedove) > > - Desktop cluster 1, desk 9, page 1 > --> Lotus Notes (32bit app running via chroot) > > - Desktop cluster 1, desk 9, page 2, 6 and 10: > --> Some SSH sessions on the Xen server to monitor the > server (free -m -t, top, xentop_wide) tmux works great for this Ironically, you also need to either remember which buffer is what, or switch between them to figure it out. I'm finding that much easier than with pages, though. And tmux keeps running. > - Desktop cluster 3, desk 12: > - Language tools, usually: > - page 3, 7 and 11 are dict.cc > - page 4, 8 and 12 are dict.leo.org > - page 2, 6 and 10 for the German thesaurus of dict.tu-chemnitz.de > - page 1 and 5 for Google and Bing (for Grammar) So many language tools? > - Desktop cluster 1: > - 12 desks (144 pages) are more application specific and less topic specific > - desk 1 and 2 (24 pages) for doing software tests > - desk 3 (12 pages) for Icedove, clipboards and Mail related stuff > - desk 4 (12 pages) contains SSH sessions to my mail servers of my test > scenario > - desk 5, page 1 contains a copy template for Jira > - desk 6 was used for Bugzilla in the past, was empty for some years and > is > used for Confluence now > - desk 7 is for volatile notes > - desk 8 (12 pages) is for Jira issues (is heavily used now) That's a huge amount of pages. I'm lost already. > - Desktop cluster 2: > - is for to do lists, protocols and agendas (to organize my work) > - mostly, desk 9 is for organizing and 3 pages are usually enough there > - desk 10 is for protocolling > - the other 10 desks are most of the time unused and thus are > cushion (buffer) for unexpected events > > - Desktop cluster 3: > - is for looking up things and to surf in the web > - desk 12 is for language tools (see above) > - desk 9 with its 12 pages is for weather reports of different providers > (different web sites) > - desk 11 usually is for Wikipedia sessions > - desk 10 is for Google search engine sessions > - all other desks of cluster 3 I use when I heavily have to investigate > and research into something > > - Desktop cluster 4: > - is reserved vor system monitoring and for interfaces to other computers > - desk 1 and desk 2 were for my VNC sessions to Linux > computers (and are mostly empty now, because VNC turned > out to be very glitchy / accident-sensitive) > - desk 3 is a remmina session to the Windows machine that contains > XenCenter > - desk 5, page 1 contains the Trintiy version of ksysguard > - desk 5, page 2 contains an xterm window with a running top > > - Desktop cluster 5 and 6: > - These are the 24 desks (288 pages) where I spend the most amount > of my working time > - cluster 5, desk 1, 2, 3 and 4 contain the documentation > of the automated test scenario > - cluster 5, desk 5, 6, 7 and 8 give me access to the different > servers of the automated test scenario (usually Firefox windows) > - cluster 9, 10, 11 and 12 are cushion (buffer) for the case that > I need more space > - cluster 6, desk 1, 2, 3 and 4 give me access to the different > servers of the automated test scenario via SSH or remmina > - desk 1 is the place where I run the automated tests > - to the controlling server, I have access via SSH, but one > SSH session uses screen with 13 screen windows > (Ctrl+F1 ... Ctrl+F12 for window 1 ... 12 and Ctrl+HOME > for window 0) > - Screen allows me to let some processes (started via SSH) run > when I cut the connection and power my computer of > - cluster 6, desk 5 is for organizing the automatization stuff > (to do lists, documentation, templates, ...) > - cluster 6, desk 6 is for OpenOffice/LibreOffice sheets > or other stuff > - cluster 6, desk 7 is for TestLink > - cluster 6, desk 8 contains the scripts, which control the automated > tests > - cluster 6, desk 9 is for git > - cluster 6, desk 10 is usually empty > - cluster 6, desk 11, page 1 is used for meld (a diff tool to compare > source code) > - cluster 6, desk 12 is used as a second version of desk 8 (I use the > space > here when desk 8 is occupied with the scripts of one scenario and I > quickly > need to have a look to the scripts of another scenario) Now that is an insane amount of pages ;) > So, as you see, these are habits. Its like owning a big house with > 6 floors (the desktop clusters), 12 rooms per floor and 12 tables per room. What is a desktop cluster? > When you own such a house, then you also have habits: One room is a kitchen, > one is the bath, one is the office, one for living, one for sleeping, one > for your 20 employees (and each employee gets his/her own office), and > you have many tables per room (one table for eating, one for working, > one for having a conference and so on). With a house, that comes not so much from habits and more from how the rooms are decorated. > My pagers (at the bottom left of the screen) are mostly not covered > with stuff, except when I run something full screen. > > The first pager shows me the 12 desks of the current desktop cluster. > The second pager displays the current desktop row consisting of > 4 desks and displays 48 pages at the same time. > > The pagers show me where I am. I imagine they take up like half your screen ... > When I switch to another cluster, desk or page, I usually use the keybord. > Rarely, I click with the mouse into the second pager to go to another > page, but 99,9% of my time I use the keyboard. > > Often, I use <Win>+<Space> to pin a window to be able to move it to > another cluster, desk or page. > > When I debug a test session, I can use a desk bookmark. Mostly, > I bookmark cluster 6, desk 1, page 3 to the minus key of the numeric keypad > and cluster 6, desk 8, any page to the plus key of the numeric keypad. > Then, I press minus to step to the next test step and I press plus > to step to the source code that controls the automated test. Oh, how do you do that? I'd find that very useful because MOTT, I'm switching back and forth between two particular pages. > I can bookmark the current cluster+desk+page via <Win>+<-> oder > <Win>+<+>. With <Win>+</>, I switch the bookmark off when I don't use > it to be able to use <+> and <-> to produce plus and minus characters > in text or to select and unselect files in Midnight Commanders. > > With <Win>+<*>, I activate the bookmarks desk-perfectly: > - I press + to go to desk 8, page 5 (the main script file) > - I press <Win>+<arrow> to go to page 6 (an include file) > - I press - to go to desk 1 (the test) > - I press + to go directly back to the include file (the system > remembers at which page I was the last time) > > With <Shift>+<Win>+<*>, I activate the bookmarks page-perfectly: > - I press + to go to desk 8, page 5 (the main script file) > - I press <Win>+<arrow> to go to page 6 (an include file) > - I press - to go to desk 1 (the test) > - I press + to go to the main script file (the system > remembers exactly which page I actually bookmarked) > > So, <Shift>+<Win>+<*> enables me to use bookmarks for pages > within one desk, which I need sometimes (but rarely) when > I want to compare for example test case descriptions in > TestLink. > > But the main use case is <Win>+<*> without <Shift>, so > I can go to different include files at desk 8 or go > to different locations at desk 1 (to investigate > what the test did at file level for example). > > Then there is the background color of the root window: > - Green indicates that I am user in one VirtualBox guest > - Turquoise indicates that I am user in another VirtualBox guest > - Ocher indicates that I am user in the host computer > - Red indicates that I am root anywhere. Even if I'd see the root window, I won't be able to remember the meaning of different colours. They'd look all the same to me after a few minutes. I'd have to have a text on each page that tells me what it is instead. > So, these are my habits. I remember what is where, because > I remember my habits and because I look at the pagers and > at the background color of my root window. For me, this > is not confusing ;-) Well, it's amazing :) How do you restore all that when you need to restart your computer or X11 session? -- After using i3 for a while, I totally realized that it is the job of the window manger to mange the windows, literally. It is, by all means, /not/ the job of the user. Once you realized this, you can see the irony of calling an operating system "Windows", and you even have to say they did a good job with that.
