I'm on zftalk.dev at least a few evenings a week (my time - GMT). It would be great to see an overview which to an extent reads almost like a manual. From my perspective the main thing people would want to discuss:
- How the tools are presented to an end user - What they are capable of accomplishing, i.e. what tools/tasks will be available or planned - How various tools behave and interact with new and existing projects - How that behaviour can be manipulated via configuration files or command line options - How behaviour can be extended - i.e. new tools, tasks and even filters - How it all contrasts to Phing, PHP's ant clone I mention Phing because some people seem to view Zend_Tool as a part replacement - no idea if that holds any water. The implementation itself is less of a concern - I'm pretty sure you can string together a class in PHP and apply unit tests ;). It's what's being implemented that holds the most interest rather than the implementation details themselves (at least for now). I think if the above leading points were addressed it would open the floodgates for comments from a lot more people keen to jump in. Pádraic Brady http://blog.astrumfutura.com http://www.patternsforphp.com OpenID Europe Foundation ----- Original Message ---- From: Ralph Schindler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tobias Gies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Zend Framework - General <fw-general@lists.zend.com> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 5:12:13 PM Subject: Re: [fw-general] What's up with Zend_Tool? Awesome! My plan today is to check in code, and produce a script/quickstart so that you and other can be in the exact position (dev. Environment wise), that I am in right now. After that, I am gonna work on the ³Big Picture² - 10,000 foot view of what the goals are, and functionally, how they are broken down. This will help you see the Goals -> Implementation relationship, which I too think is lacking at this exact moment. Let me know your availability too, I'll be in zftalk.dev this afternoon. -ralph On 7/11/08 11:02 AM, "Tobias Gies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > *raises hand* > > I'd definitely be interested in getting Zend_Tool out there as well, and I'd > be happy to help if I can. > > Ralph, I'll checkout the code from the lab as soon as I get home. I must say > that Paddy and Rob said what I think, too: The Zend_Tool and Zend_Build > proposals somehow lack the... the "thing" that makes them all fall into the > big picture, something about the roles they play. > > Also, in my opinion, there also is some confusion out there what the tooling > environment of ZF will actually *do* when it's done. Some early posts, for > example, mentioned a thing like "autogeneration of ACLs", something that > nobody lost a word about in recent mails. > > The ZF tooling environment somehow lacks something that really makes it > outstanding from the rest of (CLI) build tools out there. OK, That last one is > arguable, since (y)our build environment is fully configurable via XML, but it > does nothing others couldn't do, which is sort of sad when I look back at the > high expectations (or speculations?) that were built up in the first mails > about a ZF tooling environment. > > my .02. > > Best regards > Tobias > > 2008/7/11 Ralph Schindler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Paddy + Rob, >> >> Thank you guys for taking a look at the code. It appears that there are >> some things getting confused with respect to the code and where it lives. >> >> Rob, I noticed in your last post you mentioned some artifacts that are not >> part of my proposals and the work I have been doing, but part of Wil's >> initial initiative. >> >> Ill remove those pronto so that there is no more confusion. >> >> Currently, I am preparing the codebase inside the lab. Right now I am >> putting together some loose functional tests and a script/quickstart to get >> you exactly everything you need to get this working on your system. >> >> Since you guys have shown the interest, what are both of your availabilities >> so that I can perhaps be available to you to get you up to speed? After I >> get my code checked in and ready for you, I would really appreciate if we >> can do a screencast or conf. call or whatever so I can better know how to >> transfer all this knowledge. >> >> That goes for anyone in the community that is interested in putting effort >> into this initiative. >> >> More on this in a few hours :) >> -ralph >> >> >> On 7/11/08 9:32 AM, "Pádraic Brady" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi Rob, >>> >>>> I'm hoping to have some time to see if I can help tackle the "big >>>> picture" issues this weekend/early next week. It seems obvious to me >>>> that we should start with a list of desired functionality and an idea >>>> of how the command line syntax should look. We can then follow that on >>>> with some notes on how to customise what happens when you run any >>>> given function. >>> >>> I was under the same impression but there seems to be a lot of momentum >>> we're not seeing. With a prototype scheduled for 1.6, it would appear this >>> process has already been done internally but the current proposals just >>> don't capture this in any way or give any clue as to progress in this >>> respect. Like I said, the proposals very much appear to be implementation >>> details for an as yet undisclosed vision of how Zend_Tool and Zend_Build >>> will operate in tandem from the command line. Until it's disclosed there's >>> nothing there for the community to review (I wouldn't know where to start at >>> present), and a 1.6 prototype is the only thing currently on the cards which >>> will open up that box just as it will build up expectations of how the final >>> command line tools will be presented among users. >>> >>> ----- >>> Pádraic Brady >>> >>> http://blog.astrumfutura.com >>> http://www.patternsforphp.com >>> OpenID Europe Foundation - Irish Representative >> >> -- >> Ralph Schindler >> Software Engineer | [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Zend Framework | http://framework.zend.com/ >> >> >> >> -- Ralph Schindler Software Engineer | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Zend Framework | http://framework.zend.com/
