-- Arié Bénichou <arie.benic...@gmail.com> wrote (on Wednesday, 25 November 2009, 02:08 AM -0800): > drm-4 wrote: > > If you'd like integration for Xyster, write a proposal for it. > Please Gerard, don't tell me what i'm supposed to do. You don't get the > point here, the question is : why did'nt you use Xyster ORM?
Plain and simple: there's already huge uptake of Doctrine in the ZF community, and little to no uptake of Xyster. This means there are plenty of active contributors willing and ready to do the work. > drm-4 wrote: > > And Sensio is the devil...? What's your point? Let alone the fact that > > Doctrine is simply open source (LGPL) and whatever company would be > > behind it wouldn't make any difference? Also, check your facts, because > > what you say isn't even true. > > > > SensioLabs is not the devil, obviously, it's simply your main competitor. Debatable. Yes, Sensio employs Jon Wage and others to work on Doctrine, but the reality is that Sensio does very little to determine the direction of Doctrine; Doctrine is an open source project that relies heavily, like ZF, on community contributions. Doctrine is also being used heavily in a variety of PHP frameworks, including Symfony and Agavi. Furthermore, having integration with it means that developers familiar with it can move into ZF and retain the experience they already have. This was a really important criteria in the decision. Finally, when looking at integration with other projects, you have to look at the ecosystem. Doctrine, as noted, is being widely used. Xyster ORM, on the other hand, advertises on their home page that the community consists of.... "1 developer." This is not a community. > It's a pity that you decided to reinvent the wheel, met a 'little > blockade', resigned and decided to go for Doctrine on this failure. It's clear you have absolutely no understanding of the rationale. Zend_Entity was being developed by a single community contributor, Ben Eberlei. He was doing a remarkable job, but, in the end, he's a single person. On the Zend side, we had neither the experience nor the resources to commit to the project -- we are two engineers and myself, none of us with experience in the theory and development of ORMs (I've certainly used them, and know the design patterns and theory behind them, but have never participated in the implementation of one). As such, unless other community members stepped up to help -- and they weren't. An additional factor was that Zend_Entity and Doctrine 2 were using the same specification -- the Java Persistence API, or JPA. As such, the implementations were basically converging. Ben and the Doctrine team were aware of this, and at a certain point, Ben had to decide whether or not it made sense to spend the time and effort on a separate implementation, or instead help the other project to completion. I don't know about you, but I actually find this inspiring. It's a rare developer who will recognize that what they're doing is repeating the work of others, and then adopt the other's code, and a highly professional position to take. Isn't it better to pool our efforts and have one high quality project than to have two similar projects of lesser quality? > You could have started by providing integration to the popular > Doctrine, then have a look to the Xyster Orm. So, as i said, it's a > pity, that you failed this way. If i were SensioLabs, > http://www.doctrine-project.org/documentation/manual/2_0/en/pdf i would rub > my hands . > > So, i will ask my question again : why did'nt you use Xyster ORM? I've answered that above. One thing I'll note though: how would adopting Xyster be any qualitatively different than adopting Doctrine? Drop the Sensio FUD -- Doctrine is an OSS project, and adopting Doctrine does not in any way affect Symfony. You haven't specified any advantages Xyster has over Doctrine. To the contrary, I've pointed to many advantages of choosing Doctrine, and several disadvantages to using Xyster. If you want to see Xyster ORM integration, you will need to create a proposal for it, just as the Doctrine working group is doing currently. -- Matthew Weier O'Phinney Project Lead | matt...@zend.com Zend Framework | http://framework.zend.com/
