Hi Willem, I think I may not have been clear.
I wasn't asking how to code for Android. I was asking how you as a user would use something like a web view in your daily uses. I'm trying to get an idea from a user's point of view. Also, in regard to the latest info, again, I'm interested in the user experience not the development as I can easily access any answers I need for that. :) I'm asking about how a customer would see accessibility as this is very important to us and this seems to be the issue that everyone seems to offer different answers for or down-play in some way by just saying Android is accessible but not offering real tangible examples. The only examples from visually impaired customers, I see are from the Eyes Free list and the questions and abilities of the user-base vary wildly. So I'm wondering how an experienced user like yourself would use a web view or supposedly inaccessible text field? • How easy is it for you to use? • What is the process of using it like? Thanks so much! Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Feb 24, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Willem Venter <dwill...@gmail.com> wrote: On 2/25/14, Cara Quinn <caraqu...@caraquinn.com> wrote: > HI Willem, > > Are you actually referring to me here or just speaking generally? No, I was refering to the article and the methodology he follow. > As far as our own experience with Android development goes, I can assure you > that this is not just a simple matter of trying something and not being able > to do it on Android so we gave up. > I work with world-class developers who > are experts in their fields. So when they tell me something is less than > accessible, I listen. :) Perhaps you shouldn't jump to conclusions that fast. There was a time when android and accessibility wasn't mature, but this is changing. I guess everyone can't be a world-class expert in every field. > Part of the reason my team chooses not to port our apps to Android at > present is not just the use of the OS itself, it is also the effort that a > lay-person must potentially go through in order to either have a device that > is accessible to them or re-activate that device if it or some part of the > OS crashes or otherwise fails in some way which may render the device > inaccessible. Really? All I need to do was turn on the accessibility shortcut in settings. 3 presses of the power button always resets accessibility. > > * Can the customer bring the device up talking again by themselves on all > devices with all OS versions? Sure, unles your device is as ancient as the mountains. I know I did this 2 years ago. > > * HOw much effort is involved in setting the device up or re-enabling > accessibility so the customer can then use it effectively again or for the > first time? There's a shortcut, I can't remember what the gesture is now, so I'd say easy. Even if you somehow couldn't get the gesture to work it only requires someone to help you turn on 1 setting. It's a once off thing. > > The above concerns along with the lack of a standardized access experience > across devices and OS versions makes developing on Android a no-go for us at > least in the immediate future. > > You'd mentioned that web views are now accessible? > Yes. If I'm not mistaken Facebook uses one. > Would you mind at all describing the process of using one on Android now? I am by no mean proficient in using web views. I usually use native controls, but a very quick search gave me this. http://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebView.html I see references to AccessibilityEvents and nodes. There's also a stackoverflow answer I can't seem to find at the moment. > > As well, if anything I'm saying is in error, please, can you direct me to > correct info so I have the latest? The android documentation and examples are a very good source of info. And Google is your friend if you are searching for ways to do things. > > Thanks so much and have a great day! > > Smiles, > > Cara :) > --- > iOS design and development - LookTel.com > --- > View my Online Portfolio at: > > http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn > > Follow me on Twitter! > > https://twitter.com/ModelCara > > On Feb 24, 2014, at 2:40 PM, Willem Venter <dwill...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Cara. > I don't know Chris and I don't know his work, but in this case he > methods were flawed and his research shoddy and biased. Yes, web views > weren't always accessible. This is false since (in some cases) android > 3.0 and others 4.0 as improvements are made in new versions. This > happened in 2012 already. > > IMO there are much better and debatably easier ways of creating an > accessible program in Android. Claiming inaccessibility because you > weren't able to do things the microsoft or IOS way instead of > following android accessibility guidelines or if you were using an old > version of android doesn't prove much. Each OS dictates their own > terms under which programs should be written. This holds for Windows, > IOS, Android and many others. > > > On 2/24/14, Cara Quinn <caraqu...@caraquinn.com> wrote: >> HI Willem, >> >> Chris is one of the most thorough and meticulous researches I know of. >> >> For myself, since I am also on the Eyes Free list and work personally >> side-by-side with Android developers, I find nothing in his article that >> is >> stated incorrectly. >> >> I know for a fact that web views display all of the atrocious >> accessibility >> issues that his article touches on because I've seen other Android users >> talking about this very same thing on the Eyes Free list themselves. >> >> From my own experiences with my coworkers and my own team, developing for >> Android is an accessibility nightmare if one is looking for some sort of >> consistency or universal access. >> >> Please do not mistake the above for any lack of support for Google or >> Android. I and my company, both would love to see nothing more than >> Android >> be completely accessible and useful across the board. This just is not >> the >> case right now. So please perhaps give the article another read and >> seriously consider what Chris is saying. >> >> If people on any platform, decide to pass off a less-than-accessible >> alternative as something that is accessible then it is truly a lousy move >> for access tech as a whole. >> >> Thanks for your note and have a terrific day! >> >> Smiles, >> >> Cara :) >> --- >> iOS design and development - LookTel.com >> --- >> View my Online Portfolio at: >> >> http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn >> >> Follow me on Twitter! >> >> https://twitter.com/ModelCara >> >> On Feb 24, 2014, at 5:54 AM, Willem Venter <dwill...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I find this article extremely biased and badly researched. He starts >> off by saying he doesn't know android, the API or how to use it and >> then tries to show how unusable it is. duh. >> Making controls accessible works differently compared to other >> platforms, but does not require "hundreds of lines of code". >> While many things he says might or might not be true his lack of >> proper research makes me cautious to accept any of his findings at >> face value as many of the things he says seems to be thumb suck and >> conjecture based on heavily biased personal opinion. The fact that he >> bashes apple in another article won't make his research in this one >> better. >> >> Note, weather I agree with him or not is not the issue. From >> programming for android I know many of the things he says are false. >> It's also not even talking android up over IOS as I don't know >> objective C or the IOS API well enough to comment on it. >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. 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