Hi Hayden,I'm sure that little feature of Jaws works out ok for day to day use for most people. However, there are also times it just plane gets in the way. Like if you want to log into Sryth, you already have a kooky with your user name and password saved, so all you have to do is press enter on the login button, and your set. However, the second Jaws lands on the user name field it does the little boop, boop, boop thing and knocks you out of MSAA mode when all you wanted to do is down arrow strait to the login button instead of being dropped right into the edit field which is already filled in. I can think of another case like when you are creating a character on Sryth and you have to fill in your stats on the form. I'd prefer to enter an edit field when I find the one I want to fill in instead of Jaws automatically dropping me in the first edit field it finds and assuming I want to type information there which I may or may not want to do. I'm sure I can give several more examples here, but you get the basic drift. Window-Eyes doesn't do this, and I'm perfectly happy with pressing enter on an edit field if and when I want to enter something into the field. Otherwise don't assume I'm going to type something there just because it happens to be an edit field. As a result of features like that little automatic forms mode, or whatever Jaws calls it, I'm finding I have to turn more and more stuff off in the screen reader just to get back to a basic sscreen reader without a million extras I could care less about.
<Smile> Hayden Presley wrote:
Really? That's a feature I've come to like in JAWS myself. -----Original Message----- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:27 PM To: Charles Rivard; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen Readers and Games Hi Charles,Exactly my point. Jaws is extremely customizable, but the options are buried in the configuration manager and you have to know what to look for and where to find it in the configuration manager.As a part time user of Jaws I'm not, shall we say a daily Jaws user, so it takes me a long time to find settings and configurations I want in Jaws. Part of the problem is the complexity of the configuration manager itself, and things aren't where I personally would expect to find them. It just isn't a user friendly user interface although I can certainly use it if I absolutely need to.On the other hand when I converted over to Window Eyes I had no problem finding things in Window Eyes. As I said before all of the menus are pretty self-explanatory and if you set the difficulty level to advanced there is a lot of options there that are easy to find, are usually self-explanatory, and I just found it easier from the get go. However, I think we are drifting off the topic of how screen readers relate to games so I'll drift back on topic here.Thing is Jaws has a lot of features I simply don't like turned on. Such as the fact ever since Jaws 10 whenever you are on a web page, such as an on line game, you pass over a edit box and Jaws goes boop, boop, boop, as it turns off MSAA so you can type data into the field. Then, I manually have to turn MSAA back on by moving off the edit box, and continue on my way. I can't say how frustrating and annoying that feature is, and it clearly didn't have on line games in mind as it slows you down quite a lot. So I've had to go into the configuration manager, dig around a while, until I found that little feature and turn it off.Charles Rivard wrote:I agree that, while the configuration manager is too complex, it is very customizable.As for hanging you out to dry, I will not buy MOTA. Why not?? I already did. Ha ha. Dang, it's going to be a great game! The waiting is tougherthan good beef jerky! --- In God we trust!----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ward" <thomasward1...@gmail.com>To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:20 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Screen Readers and Games Hi Dark, Actually, Jaws has the ability to fully customize what punctuation is read, but it is buried very deep in the Jaws configuration manager. Unless you are a highly skilled or advanced Jaws user you will never find or be able to configure the punctuation exactly the way you want in a game or any other application. That's actually one of the screen reader's major short comings. The configuration manager has a lot of advanced and powerful features, but most of the Jaws users I know or have met aren't aware of what features are actually in the configuration manager, and a few are a bit intimidated about the amount of options in there. You know, "I better not mess with it or I'll break it," type fear people have about any piece of complicated software. I think it is too complex and overly bloated for your average home user when it comes to actually using the configuration manager. Window Eyes is much more user friendly in that from the Window Eyes control panel you have various pulldown menus along the menu bar such as File, Screen, Mouse, Keyboard, Global, etc that are easy to find and just as easy to configure. When done just save the set file. There is no need to dig through a complicated configuration manager just to find a certain check box, or a series of check boxes, to do this or that. Anyway, I'm sure a few Jaws users are about to hang me out to dry for knocking their beloved screen reader, but I'm merely calling them as I see them. I've found Window Eyes a much easier product to configure for interactive fiction games, muds, whatever than Jaws. It seams every time I want to specifically configure the punctuation to speak these symbols and not these symbols I have to plow through an endless amount of dialog boxes and check boxes to get it setup correctly for my needs. That's why I find it a more unwieldy and overly complex screen reader for my tastes. dark wrote:That is probably true Bryan, I've noticed that some people tend to assume every person using a screen reader will automatically use Jaws. I was for instance a trifle irritated when during one of my first experiments with muds, I wrote to the admins of Alterean to get things working, ---- and they sent me a link to some Jaws script files, despite the fact that i'd clearly stated in my E-mail I was using Hal. i must confess, during my one try out with jaws, I wasn't a fan, but given the amount of time I've used Hal that's not surprising, ---- and I'm fairly certain there are people who would say the same thing upon trying Hal after using another screen reader. One option I missed for instance, ---- was Hal's ability to customize what punctuation is read when. i have Hal for instance set to read all punctuation when reviewing via arrow keys, ---- sinse that's what I use when editing, ---- some punctuation when typing so i can remember sentence structure, ---- andnone at all when i'm reading using continuous document read, ---- sinse the last thing I want to here in a text adventure, story, --- oreven someone's post or E-mail is constant repeats of period comma or dash. I was a litle bothered that Jaws didn't have these options, sinse I rely on them for a lot of things i do involving text, --- in fact without them I'm not sure if I would be quite as much a fan of text adventures and gamebooks as I am now.As I said this isn't intended as a Jaws bash, or a Hal promo, ---- merely noting things I've got used to having in hal which I'd miss inanother program. Beware the grue! Dark.--- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.orgIf you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of thelist,please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.--- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail togamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. 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